Featured The Freewill Invitation system is a False Gospel

Sorry T

I was saved the same way, except the preacher was Billy Graham and I was 10. Interesting how we were saved the exact same way, simple, without having any knowledge of TULIP. You 27 and me 10, yet saved the same way, the Gospel is preached, the Holy Spirit convicts and we either say yea or nay. Praise God we said yes! Chosen through the sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the Son of God.

God bless you T.

 

I haven't experienced any Christians like that personally. All the one's I know give God all the glory for their salvation. If not for God and the cross of Jesus we would have no hope. If not for God and the conviction of the Holy Spirit we would have no hope. If not for God and the drawing of the Father we would have no hope. Praise be to God and to God be ALL the glory!!!!!

 

I have been here quite awhile and have read hundreds if not thousands of post from DHK. I have never concluded such thing from DHK. There are a few here that believe they are helping God save them in some way through their own obedience, but I know for sure that DHK is not one of them. When it comes to salvation and justification I am in full agreement with DHK and the scripture we always cite -

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph 2:8-9)

Some here erroniously teach that exercising faith in Christ is a work. This is plainly a false teaching and not found anywhere in the scripture.

 

TCassity...

You posted...

That is pure rubbish. A complete lie. Total falsehood. Slanderous.

You owe DHK an apology

Your Calvinism has rendered you unable to discern truth from error. :tonofbricks:

 

The phrase "another gospel" is found in the book of Galatians does not deal directly with TULIP but with the doctrine of justification by grace through faith in contrast to works. One could rightly argue they are logically related to each other but that does not change the precise theological aspect of salvation that Paul is precisely dealing with - justification by faith without works.

My "free will" Baptist friends who embrace eternal security do not deny the doctrine of justification by grace through faith without works. Hence, it is unfair to attribute "another gospel" to them.

Their issue is over the cause behind the will moving it to believe the gospel. They do not deny the gospel of grace but rather deny a forced will. In reality the Bible also denies any EXTERNAL force applied on the will while clearly teaching the INTERNAL pressure applied on the will by one's own either depraved or regenerated heart (mind and emotions).

The issue is really not the will but what influences the will to make a certain choice. The issue is not about the freedom of the will but the limitations of the sphere in which that freedom operates. God has a free will but God cannot will to sin simply because His will exercises its freedom within the sphere of righteousness.

 

Typical for someone who cannot distinguish between things that differ.

 

First, Christ said: "And I, if I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men to myself. The meaning here is that his death, burial and resurrection was for all men, not just for a select group called the elect. It was efficacious only to them that believe. Like the Philippian jailer: I believed; I was saved. To God be the glory. No matter which way you look at it: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I would not have believed, had I not heard and understood the gospel first. As for the Holy Spirit, there was conviction of the Holy Spirit as per John 16 where it clearly delineates the work of the Holy Spirit.

I have heard the testimony of many that it is the Word that opens their eyes. That is also what is in harmony with Scripture.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Consider Paul's own testimony:
Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
--How were their eyes opened?
How were they turned from darkness to light?
How were the turned from the power of Satan unto God?
How did they receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance...?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
--It was through the preaching of of the cross. It is the Word of God that has the power to change the heart of the lost soul.
--When that gospel message is preached and understood, it must be accepted by faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Did I say that? Those are your words. You are trying to put them into my mouth. Not good.
--I just explained to you where the power of God comes from.

First, I don't preach heresy. I preach the Word.
Second, I don't have any of my own goodness, only the righteousness of Jesus Christ which he clothed me in, the day that I was saved.
Third, I obeyed his command to believe in him.
Fourth, I believed his promise that if I believed him he would give me eternal life.
Fifth, I find no such concept that I had to believe with God's faith in order to receive that eternal life. God didn't give me the faith to belief. Where do you get that from in Scripture?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
--I heard; I believed; I was granted eternal life.

Every one has the ability to choose. You make choices every day. Those choices are based on faith. They always have been. It is the object of your faith that is important in salvation.

So you say. Even in the new birth, man cannot be born again without having heard the Word and believing it. Without faith in the Word; without faith preceding regeneration, you have nothing but a mystical esoterical existential undefinable experience that not even the Calvinist can explain.

No, each verse has to be looked at in the context in which they are given.

Does it come in handy for you to call my disagreement with you "a lie"?
The Bible repeatedly says that salvation is by faith. I believe that. That is no lie. Faith precedes salvation. That is a necessity.

Faith is not manufactured, it is God-given. Even a child has faith, as Jesus declared. Man has faith well before salvation. It is exercised in many different ways well before salvation. It has nothing to do with approaching God on one's own merit since faith is not a work. I do not approach God with any sense of pride, but humbly, and many times in tears. Your assessment is quite wrong. You know little of me, and your inferences are quite off.

 

I hold a position in between you and TCassidy and so I don't agree with either of you completely.

John 12:32 comes after the fuller explanation of John 6 and so it cannot be isolated from John 6 and made to stand alone.

John 12:32 cannot be isolated from its immediate preceding context where it is gentiles that specifically ask to see Christ and it is this very request that leads Chrsit into this very discussion.

In John 6:44-45 every single person drawn by the father comes to the son in faith and is eternally saved. This is proven by the last phrase in verse 44 which has been already defined and applied to every single one given by the Father to the Son in verses 39-40 and later in verse 54.

In John 6:64-65 Jesus substitutes the term "draw" for the term "given" and places it in a context that defines it as explanatory for why those in verse 64 did not truly believing in him although they professed to be his disciples.

Hence, the proper interpretation of "all men" in John 12:32 must be fitting with all the criteria minutely set down in John 6 concerning this topic and the immediate context of John 12:20-32 where the subject is NON-JEWS who want to come to Jesus. Thus "all men" does not mean all men without exception but all men without distinction because he that has been drawn by the Father is the same "him" who is raised up to the resurrection of eternal life (Jn. 6:44b) and he is "all" that is taught of the Father (Jn. 6:45a) and "everyone" that has learned and heard of the Father (Jn. 6:45b) because "everyone" that hath learned and heard of the Father "cometh" to Jesus (Jn. 6:45c) and not one single person that comes to Son shall be lost (Jn. 6:39) but raised to the resurrection of eternal life (Jn. 6:39b).

However, in regard to the freedom of the will, I do not deny it. I believe all men can freely chose. However, that freedom is within the sphere of their own nature and not outside of it just as God's freedom of choice is restricted within the sphere of righteousness and not outside of it as he cannot choose to sin or lie.

 

That is what Charismatics do. "work up their faith." I never said any such thing. I simply believe, as the Bible commands. Salvation is by grace through faith. I do not forget about grace. The riches of the grace of God are far beyond my comprehension--how an infinite God could leave the glories of heaven, so humble himself to be born of a virgin in a lowly stable, walk among men who reviled him, and then finally crucified him out of their own jealousy. No, I don't understand all of that. But I am awed at it. His death, burial and resurrection is central to my faith. But I must accept it by faith as Eph.2:8,9 declares.

Please define how a person is "dead".

I don't deny it; I may question your definition of "dead."

No doubt it does. It also teaches that a Christian is the enemy of God if he is a friend of the world. See James 4:4. Are you the enemy of God? I don't know. It is possible.

The Bible teaches many things, not just one thing.

That is not the only thing the Bible teaches. That is also your interpretation of what the Bible is teaching according to specific verses, and you are limiting yourself to those verses, and excluding the vast majority of Scripture that would put that Scripture in a totally different light.

 

I notice you are fond of prooftexting. Problem is, others can prooftext to counter your prooftext, should they wish to do so.

Prooftexters fall prey to being stucketh by their on sword -- to be consistent with your King James English.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in proof texting unless it is a proof text used contrary to its immediate context.