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John The Baptist, Jesus Christ and Yahweh - Part 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AndyMartin, May 18, 2017.

  1. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    In Luke 1:76, Zacharias says of his son John: “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the LORD (Yahweh) to prepare His ways”. Which clearly is from Malachi chapter 3, as well as Isaiah 40:3, which Mark combines in his Gospel, chapter 1:1-3.

    But, opponents of the Deity of Jesus Christ have sought to undermine this passage, by suggesting that the " autou " does not refer to the preceding "LORD their God", but to the Messiah (Who up to now is unknown). Thus, we have one advocate of this opinion, Dr G Winer, the Greek grammarian who lived in the last century. Dr Winer says of the pronoun " autou ":

    " autou has no reference grammatically indicated in the previous context, but must be understood of a subject which is supposed to be familiar: L.i.17, autos proeleusetai autou, i.e. before the Messiah"

    (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, pp.182-183)

    Dr Winer argues that the "Him" in the above passage, refers to "a subject which is supposed to be familiar". This would be true in the case, where the "subject" was already known to the reader. However, in our present instance, there is no previous mention of the Messiah; so how could this be "familiar" to the readers, since it was not known to them? Dr Winer gives three examples to support his argument (p.183).

    a. 1 John 2:12, "I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you, for His (autou) Name's sake". It is quite clear from 1:7-9; and 2:1-2, that the autou is Jesus Christ, and was already known to John's readers.

    b. 2 John 6, "And this is love, that we walk after His (autou) commandments...". If the reader were to go back to verse four, that John is referring to the commandments, "of the Father", to Whom the autou would refer.

    c. 2 Peter 3:4, "And saying, where is the promise of His (autou) Coming?...". In chapter one, Peter speaks of "the power and Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"(ver.16), to Whom the autou would refer.

    It is evident that in each of the above examples given by Dr Winer, the "subject" was already known to the readers, where the use of "autos", would be familiar to them. But, as I have already said, there is no mention of Jesus Christ in any of the preceding verses in Luke chapter one, in which case the readers would not connect "autos" with the unknown Messiah! It must be remembered, that Dr Winer was a Unitarian, and, therefore could not call Jesus "the LORD their God".

    Dr Winer's judgment in such matters cannot be taken in to account, as his theological position on Jesus Christ clearly affected his judgment on his conclusions on grammar. Thus, on Titus 2:13, he admits that grammatically, only one person is meant, but, because of his "dogmatic conviction derived from Paul's writings, that this apostle cannot have called Christ the great God, induced me to show that...Christ...(is) referring to a second subject" (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.162). Here, like in Luke 1:17, Dr Winer lets his theological bias get in the way of making an honest judgment of the facts before him.

    NOTE ON THE TEXT OF ISAIAH 40:3

    As we have seen in the above quotation from Isaiah 40, the words are: “A highway for our God”, which in the Gospel quotations has been changed to, “make His paths straight”. The words of Isaiah are that of the Hebrew and Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, which reads: ““tribous tou theou hemon” (the paths of our God). This has been changed to, “tas tribous autou” (His paths).

    It is very interesting to note, that, instead of the above quotation in the Gospels ending: "make His paths straight", we have another reading, which I believe is the original. In the works of the Greek Church Father, Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (A.D.130-200), he says:

    "He, the forerunner of Christ, of whom Matthew again says, and Luke likewise:

    'for this is he that was spoken of from the LORD by the prophet, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight the paths of our God" (Against Heresies, Book, 5.1)

    This is the oldest quotation we have for this text, and, as we can see, differs from our common reading. The oldest Greek manuscript that supports the "common" reading, is the Codex Vaticanus which dates from the fourth century. A century earlier, the heretic Origen (185-254) quotes Luke 3:4, to agree with this Ms. It should be noted, that Irenaeus wrote in Greek and would have used a text which dated from at least the beginning of the second century. Although the works of Irenaeus have come down to us in a Latin translation made from his Greek text, this does not affect his witness for the Greek, as "It (the Latin translation) often follows the Greek exactly" (A Souter; Text and Canon, p.73). Add to this the fact, "that Irenaeus' copy of the Gospel was practically equivalent to an early ancestor of the Greek side of Codex Bezae" (ibid).

    The Codex Bezae, which is also known by the letter D, dates from the sixth century; and in Mark 1:3, it reads: “tribous tou theou hemon” (the paths of our God). This is the only Greek manuscript, as far as we know, that has this reading. But, this reading is also found in a number Old Latin manuscripts, as well as manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate, and the Old Syriac.

    There can be no doubt that here we have a very clear testimony, from Jesus Himself, where He claims Deity for Himself. If, as the likes of the Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, that Jesus is a created being, then His application of Malachi 3:1 to Himself would be blasphemy, but this is not the case, as can be clearly seen from all the Scripture evidence as given above. There is very much evidence in the Bible, that very clearly shows to the honest mind, that Jesus

    Christ is Himself coequal, coessential and coeternal to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, and therefore ALMIGHTY GOD

    In concluding it must be said, that, here we have passages from the four Gospels, in which Old Testament prophecies that have been fulfilled in the Coming of Jesus Christ, and which testify to His Deity. In fact, we have seen that Jesus Himself, so applies the words from Malachi to Himself, so as to leave no doubt, that He considered Himself to be YAHWEH, the God of the Holy Bible. This brings us to another fact, which is the Name “Yahweh”, which in the Hebrew, speaks of “One Who is eternal and self-existent”. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone who is honest about what the Bible teaches on the Person of Jesus Christ, to believe that He is not ALMIGHTY GOD. This study itself should be more than conclusive of this FACT.
     
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  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Again, excellent Andy

    John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    HankD
     
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  3. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Hi Hank, thanks very much. Yes this is a great text for the Deity of Jesus.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, How wonderful - God Himself saved us.

    HankD
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I spoke to a JW Rlder once, and used our great God and saviour jesus on him, as first used isaiah to show that God only knows that he saves...
     
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  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Indeed if Jesus wasn't fully God then He couldn't save is.

    John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins.

    he is in italics - not in the Greek text.

    HankD
     
  7. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Thanks Hank, very true. Interesting that "am" is in italics as it is not in the original.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You mean "he" :).

    HankD
     
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Am is not in italics and is in the text. εγω ειμι.

    In Hebrew אהיה is more of an explanation of the Name He gave to Abraham to call Him in Genesis 15. יהוה - Yahwah. See the similarity?

    אהיה = I Am. יהוה (Yahwah) is a form of אהיה (hayah) expressing self existence.
     
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  10. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Right, my mistake. I meant that "he" is not in the original. Thanks
     
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  11. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    But, the Hebrew "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", can also mean "I will be, that I will be", the verb being in the future tense. the Greek (LXX) has it, "Eγω ειμι ο ων", I am the existing One".
     
  12. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Yes, thanks
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Imperfect Andy - (Incomplete action) which is the Hebrew way of expressing future tense.

    Also, you may be interested to know that Revelation 1:8 contains Eγω ειμι ο ων found in the LXX but not in that exact order, take a look if you can handle the Greek.

    HankD
     
  14. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Thanks, Hank. Yes I know of the Revelation text.

    This is what Calvin says on Exodus 3:14, "I am that I am. The verb in the Hebrew is in the future tense, “I will be what I will be;” but it is of the same force as the present, except that it designates the perpetual duration of time".

    W F Albright, in his, From Stone Age to Christianity, says, "I will bring to pass".

    Brown, Driver, Briggs, "יהוה is not used by E in Genesis, but is given Exo_3:12-15 as the name of the God who revealed Himself to Moses at Horeb, and is explained thus : עִמָּ֑ךְ אֶהְיֶה I shall be with thee (Exo_3:12), which is then implied in אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה I shall be the one who will be it".

    Gesenius, "Exo_3:14 אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה, “I (ever) shall be (the same) that I am (to-day);”
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Good references Andy.

    I once read in a children's Hebrew grammar that the tetragrammaton is a concatenation of the Hebrew "I was, I am, I will be" indicating the eternality of HaShem.


    HankD

     
  16. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Yes, that sounds about right. I think the LXX get this as close to the Hebrew, and use it in the continuance, present tense, "I am". The Name YHWH, seems to mean "the eternal One", which is how the Jews who translated the LXX from Hebrew, understood, as they wrote, "I am the eternal One". Thanks for sharing
     
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