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". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 8, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Nah, It's all God demanding that you obey His will by believing on His Son, or fry in hell for all eternity. All God.

    God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
    Me: "God be merciful to me a sinner!!!"
    No "merit" in that bro.
     
    #61 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you do have to do something. You have to "obey His will by believing on His Son."

    "Obey" is a verb. Something you DO!

    "Believing" is a verb. Something you DO!

    Thank you for proving my point.
     
    #62 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  3. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    I believe His words NOW and follow Him NOW, because on May11, 1986, He saved me and I became one of His sheep.

    John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


    Now read the rest of the scripture.......

    John 10
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    30 I and my Father are one.

    31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

    32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

    33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    He's exhorting these Jews to BELEIVE, after He just got done saying "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep". Let that sink in Brother.
     
    #63 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
    Me: Are you kidding? I don't even believe you exist. And if I did believe you exist, I would still hate you. And I will not accept you. This whole subject is stupid.
    God: I can fix that. (Regenerates me and gives me the ability to believe, repent, and obey).
    None of me. All of Him.

    2 Corinthians 2:14.
     
    #64 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  5. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Does the Bible say anything about verbs? No, it says "works". Believing in your heart is not a work.
     
    #65 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. They don't believe because they are not His.

    Those that do believe, believe because they are His.

    Very simple. And again proves our point.
     
    #66 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  7. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Right.

    "Sleep" and "snore" are also action verbs. It hardly qualifies as a "work" in any meaningful sense.
    To conflate action verbs with a Biblical definition of "works" is absurd. I half believe T.C. doesn't really even buy his own argument on this. It's slightly insulting that he seems to think non-Calvinists will.
     
    #67 HeirofSalvation, Dec 11, 2017
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    "Works" is a noun. Something you have. "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling."

    "Work" is a verb. Something you do.

    Work:
    verb
    1.
    be engaged in physical or mental activity in order to achieve a purpose or result, especially in one's job; do work. Merriam Webster Dictionary of the English language.

    "Believing" is a verb. Something you DO!

    You keep claiming it is all of God but you also keep claiming that you have to DO something!
     
    #68 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    "Sleep" is something you DO!

    "Snore" is something you DO!

    And I didn't conflate anything. That is just wishful thinking on your part.

    And I believe in biblical soteriology with all my heart. And the fact that you don't seem able to understand it is not my problem. I can tell you the Truth but I can't open your mind to receive it.
     
    #69 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  10. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    So is "steal" or "lie"....
    You are acting as though since they are action verbs that they would similarly fit a Biblical definition of "works". No one believes this.
    Yes, it's not a "work" in any meaningful sense, and you are too intelligent to believe this.
    Yes, you did. ". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26) And it isn't the first time. You conflated a Biblical definition of "works" with "doing" essentially anything or subsumed all action verbs into "works".
    Me too. Everyone on this board at least thinks they do.
    The "truth" that action verbs are by very definition synonymous with a Biblical definition of "works"?
    No, you certainly can't.....I don't think anyone buys your line of argument on this one. I half think you don't. I could be mistaken.
     
    #70 HeirofSalvation, Dec 11, 2017
  11. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Ah, but, alas, since to "cling" is an action verb....something you DO! :eek:
    That, by your definition qualifies as a "work".
     
    #71 HeirofSalvation, Dec 11, 2017
  12. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, I believe NOW because I became "His sheep", back in 1986. Very simple.
    Jesus told those Jews that His sheep heard His voice because they were His.
    THEN he told those same Jews that THEY could believe too. Read John 10: 38
     
    #72 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
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  13. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    double post
     
    #73 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
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  14. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Try to remind yourself of the historical context.
     
    #74 thatbrian, Dec 11, 2017
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  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Let me get this straight. God told you the above, and then you acted on it. That's why you are saved while someone else is not, correct?
     
    #75 thatbrian, Dec 11, 2017
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  16. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Oh yes, they had wheat back then. I have fed handfuls of wheat grain to my sheep too and they ate it just fine, but for me it's more expensive than oats and corn so it was a rare treat. I have planted it though, and the sheep love it. I don't know what you mean Bro, I'm sure sheep eat the same things and behave the same way as they did 2000+ years ago.

    Contrary to what you said, sheep do eat grain. They also like peanuts, peanut butter, pecans(in or out of the shell), cereal, crackers etc. I feed mine on sorghum, clovers, millet, oats(grass), wheat(grass) and rye. Then there is Vetch, Alyce clover, Lespadezza, Winter Peas (those aren't grasses)......
     
    #76 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
  17. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Jesus: My sheep like wheat, so I give them some, and they follow me." Is that what the text says???

    No, if you are correct, then ALL sheep would come to Christ; however, the point of the story is that not all do, and those who do, do so because they "know His voice"

    You seem to be missing the point by much more than a mile, so I may give up at this point. I don't hold out much hope for a reasonable debate with you.
     
    #77 thatbrian, Dec 11, 2017
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  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you didn't believe when you became His sheep? Your belief came later?
     
    #78 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Exactly! Prior to regeneration I rejected the cross. After regeneration I cling to the cross.
     
    #79 TCassidy, Dec 11, 2017
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  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I hated God. I hide from Him. I did not seek Him. He sought, found, and saved me, though, and my lips will praise Him for all eternity, because He saved His enemy. He saved a scoffer. He saved a pig of a human being - a wretch like me, not because I sought Him, for I did not. Not because I served Him, for I did not, but because He set His love on me. Can you imagine?! He set His love on me, the least deserving creature on the face of the Earth. . .
     
    #80 thatbrian, Dec 11, 2017
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