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Does it Really Matter?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HankD, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    This morning in my email I received a letter from a sister, an international independent missionary who recently lost her husband and of course she asked (as always) for prayer.

    As I was praying the thought flashed across my mind - "Why pray? Does it really matter?".

    Does prayer really matter? I have walked with the Lord 56 years and occasionally I have this thought.
    To be honest I do have a bit of a struggle, but not anywhere as bad as it used to be.

    Considering the Sovereignty of God (Either Calvin or Arminius version is OK) does it really matter?

    I know we should -
    Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

    But does it matter?
    Scripture?
    James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    Actually this episode started with brother Cassidy's news concerning his health (yes, I prayed as many others have done).
     
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  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I was thinking of TC a moment before I saw this thread. I wonder how he is doing?
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I pray a lot concerning others, and I like you sometimes wonder if it matters. I say this in the context of sometime I pray my will concerning them when my heart always desires God's will in the matter. Therefore, I wonder.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I have asked myself that before and my answer always is.....of course it matters.

    I don't know why God wants us to pray. All I know is that he asks us to and Jesus showed us how. God also says that the prayers of someone righteous avails much!! How does that happen? I don't know.

    All I know is that prayer and fasting is a powerful thing. We should be about it daily.

    I didn't know TC was ill. What is wrong?
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Announcement
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I have decided it matters at least for the fellowship with God.
    Yes, someone said God wants us to pray so that also makes it matter.

    The part that causes the headache is - The Sovereignty of God.
    I somehow think the middle voice concept makes it matter. God already knows what we need/want before we ask so It seems that He wants to hear it anyway.
     
  7. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Without getting into depth concerning how I would define Divine Sovereignty to be other than deterministic I’ll just relay to you, Hank, that I have similar thoughts and will try to share where I end up which always reinforces my faith that prayers absolutely do matter.

    Similarly I often think, and sometimes even start my prayers with that God already knows what I am thinking and feeling but I talk to Him anyway while believing 2 main things, that first, I believe God smiles at the exchange of love between us and second, I believe that I am ever-changing and real time interventions are not only possible in all situations but it is well within His power to facilitate these changes to impact the outcome. – So why wouldn’t our loving Father gift and bless and intervene for His children according to His will? I think we see many examples in the Bible that He does.

    I see our Father as a God who interacts in love with His children through influence and response rather than merely cause and effect.

    Finally, I believe faith, and trust, and love, and our very existence as specially gifted divinely designed creatures with sense, reason and intellect has a purpose that goes far beyond preset conclusions. When I read the scriptures I am often reminded of the power of faith and the great love of God along with His wisdom to always that which is good and according to His will.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it seems a paradox to me especially when I thank Him for granting me my desire as if He changed His mind because of my request.

    There is one mysterious place in the scripture (well lots but this one is related):

    Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

    OR

    Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    I believe it was Martin Luther who said - if you don't understand how God works leave it and come back later.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    One of the marks of being saved is the assurance of answered prayer according to God's will.
    ". . . And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. . . ." -- 1 John 5:14-15.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, this is a narrative form of Middle Voice which does not exist in the English Language.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Yes, it matters. Stop praying and watch what happens.

    Ye have not, because ye ask not.
     
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Charles VanderPool in his Apostolic Bible Polyglot translates the word αιτώμεθα as "we should ask." As opposed to "we may ask." I do not know if you would find that of any help.
     
  13. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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  14. Mr. Roy

    Mr. Roy New Member

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    Prayer to me is foremost a privilege that is extended us by virtue of our patternship as image-bearers. We speak to Him (as limited participants in relation to His vast intellect) as beings nevertheless capable of the desire for intended outcomes - short-sighted, weak and ineffectual as they may be. We wish for this and that or the other thing to occur, for it seems right and proper to us that they come to pass within the lives of those who serve Him. Yet it is paramount for us to realize that our intentions can never change the events that are divinely set to occur, for He is completely sovereign over each and every event that plays out in time. Mind you, it is certainly not out of place to raise a sick friend before God for healing, but only upon the grounds that it serve to glorify God in some way or otherwise advance His purposes here on earth. It could even be so that the power of prayer itself is attested to in a most visible way! However, it is God who chooses and effects even the individual path of each leaf that flutters to the ground at they are shed by the tree, just as the total number changes every time we loose one of our hairs. The point is, God is mindful of even the least (to us inconsequential) aspect of His creation - and that to the minutest detail. As such, He does not need us in order to govern, yet graciously allows us the privilege to participate in the process. He does hear our requests, and it is an important act of faith and trust that we would wait upon Him.

    Hence effectual prayer is essentially a petition for alignment between two wills - that between man and God. And I find that the nature and character of your prayers will change dramatically as this truth begins to set in. The goal is to align your specific petition to the will of God in any particular area, for this becomes the sole way to play any supporting role in the affairs of how the world is destined to go. Lifted in symmetry to the intent of God, the power of this kind of prayer knows no limits in its effectiveness, and in the end it is a spiritually mature mind to realize that we all want whatever God wants as well. To put it another way, God's ears are always attentive to the prayers of those who seek His ultimate glory, and it is an amazing thing even to consider that He graciously grants us the right of testimony (in the act of petition) in this regard. Therefore, it is both right and good that we come to the Lord in presentation of our requests, for it acknowledges His ultimate power to effect outcomes.

    Limited in both time and space however, we do not possess the necessary qualifications in order to sit at his council, and we are only given the profound permission to align our petitions with His sovereign will. It is a thing to be closely guarded, cultivated and carefully fostered by the Spirit within us as we are being continually conformed (inwardly) to His likeness. Here, we gradually learn to raise our concerns in appeal to His essential character as they serve to govern over His decisions. In short, in order to play any real part in the determinant order of things, we would do well to touch upon either His holiness or His great love when engaged in the act of petition. Hence a sick friend healed solely for selfish reasons (or even for their own sake) is a poor way to raise a legitimate concern unto a Person who lies at the virtual epicenter of the spiritual realm - it must be done to the credit of His love. Health, longevity and wealth are similarly devoid of merit in and of themselves, for He is to be the object of glory above all else.

    As an example of what I consider to be ineffectual prayer, I heard recently a petition for "peace and love" to reign in our country for the coming new year. Written on a general prayer request card for the pastor to reiterate in the upcoming corporate prayer, many a churchgoer might be tempted to utter similar words in their private prayer life as well. After all, who wouldn't want these very things to describe the situation in our country, right? Well, outside the way His church naturally effects these things as the gospel message forges its path in the midst of an adulterous and wicked generation, this petition lies rather weak and powerless. In fact, I suspect that it was directed chiefly at the current political situation that has served to deeply divide our country. Now, to be sure, it made direct appeal to His love and the peace that ensues from this primal aspect of His character, yet it makes no effort to acknowledge that His renown is most often forged in the press of intense conflict, especially as it is reflected in the (un)civil discourse found in current politics. Indeed, peace and love can never be used to describe the situation between Satan and the purposes of God, and any petition toward the affairs of our nation must make room for this spiritual reality. A much better way to make appeal in this regard would be to pray that the warriors of this generation accomplish the will of God as their public testimony is given in witness to the truth found in scripture. That would be an example of effective prayer.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="Mr. Roy, post: 2472326, member: 14427"
    As an example of what I consider to be ineffectual prayer, I heard recently a petition for "peace and love" to reign in our country for the coming new year. Written on a general prayer request card for the pastor to reiterate in the upcoming corporate prayer, many a churchgoer might be tempted to utter similar words in their private prayer life as well. After all, who wouldn't want these very things to describe the situation in our country, right? Well, outside the way His church naturally effects these things as the gospel message forges its path in the midst of an adulterous and wicked generation, this petition lies rather weak and powerless. In fact, I suspect that it was directed chiefly at the current political situation that has served to deeply divide our country. Now, to be sure, it made direct appeal to His love and the peace that ensues from this primal aspect of His character, yet it makes no effort to acknowledge that His renown is most often forged in the press of intense conflict, especially as it is reflected in the (un)civil discourse found in current politics. Indeed, peace and love can never be used to describe the situation between Satan and the purposes of God, and any petition toward the affairs of our nation must make room for this spiritual reality. A much better way to make appeal in this regard would be to pray that the warriors of this generation accomplish the will of God as their public testimony is given in witness to the truth found in scripture. That would be an example of effective prayer.[/QUOTE]

    It is a major theme of prayer to God, even taught from "The Lord's Prayer"

    "Thy will be done"
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    When I lost my first wife to Kidney Cancer after 30 years of marriage, I prayed that the Lord by some intervening miracle would save her... He didn't!... I was lost, devastated, hurt and crushed... I had been walking trying to walk with the Lord over 35 years... So I told the Lord in no uncertain terms... I SURRENDER... YOU TAKE OVER!... So I let go and let God!... To some maybe this is hard to understand but to others maybe not but not looking for one he sent me another... Scripture says God works in mysterious ways his wonder to perform, well I was about to find out... I wasn't looking for another only someone to talk to but one month to the day I lost my wife God sent me another... We were married one year later... Fast forward ten years... In 2015 she went for her yearly mammogram, she was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer and underwent radiation and chemo... God spared her why?... I don't know why he took one and spared one?... But I do know that going through it she got a new perspective and so did I... Her mission now is since she been through it, is helping those who are going through it too or any other cancer... She heads the Cancer Care and Compassion Ministry at our church and helps those no matter denomination or if they even belong to a church... To me personally pray is a motivator, not to get everything we ask for, but for God to show us what is possible even when we didn't think it was... According to his will, his way, to carry out his purpose for our good. if we just open our eyes, our hearts and our souls to see and believe, then may be then, we understand!... Brother Glen:)
     
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  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I hear you brother.
     
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