EPH1:1-14....what is says/ what it does not say!

Exactly what I said. Yes this is written to the saints at Ephesus But verses 4 and 5 the word us refers to Himself and those with him other wise he would have said "Ye" because in verse 13 he clearly uses the word "Ye" to refer to those who are not the" us" in verse 4 and 5.
MB

 

These existed before eternity?
It's my understanding, the Father Gave the Son the nations as His Inheritance (Psalms 2) and it does not indicate which individuals, just simply a group of people (Which we now know to be the Church).

No, John 6 does not "Clearly" say that. John 6 is talking about the present living Sheep of God.

Correct, God's plan to bring a love Gift to His Son was established before the world began. Nothing about individual election.

Agree

Because we are conflating several different ideas here. Jeremiah was called to be a prophet...does not necessitate a calling for salvation. Balaam was a prophet of God. And Judas was an apostle.

 

It reminds me a a person who missed class one day asking questions of about the same material already covered.
I will endeavor to recover the key points from other threads

 

Even when a person "calls upon the Lord" to be saved, it is still HIS CHOICE to save them. Salvation is entirely up to the Lord.

 

I suppose we will have to disagree then, enough said.
MB

 

it is not "before the foundation of the world" as in" time " but in front of, like speaking before an assembly so that everyone sees the speaker.

 

Baloney! That makes no sense at all in any of the uses of from the foundation of the world

ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world (same Greek phrase) but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (notice this text juxtaposes since with end proving it IS TIME).

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, (ibid #2) but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Where did you learn your Greek!?

 

No, sir. I stated, "Based upon the Bible's position on the free will of man, I can only conclude that this passage is teaching something other than predestination or unconditional election." I readily affirm that God elects us to salvation. He elects all those who submit to His plan of salvation which is attained by the means of repentance and faith.

That is why I do not base my beliefs on a philosophical idea but rather a biblical truth.

This is human logic. God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)

I am not basing my doctrine on this one, isolated passage.

Several years ago, I answered an ad in the local paper to begin working at a state prison that was being built in my hometown. I took the initiative to accept this job offer. However, it was predestined that, after I accepted this offer, I would wear a specific uniform. My grooming habits must conform to their standards. I had an expectation of faithfulness and loyalty to the job. The Christian life is no different (although I know any analogy is perfect).

No tricks, Brother, just rightly dividing the Word of God. As I stated above, God's Word does not contradict itself.

 

I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying I agree that God chooses, regardless of how we look at it.

 

It is not in every usage of the phrase. Some are accurate as used as in
Jhn 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before thefoundation of the world.

was Jesus slain before the word was formed or that every eye shall see Him as a slain Savior?

It is not a Greek problem but English, remember there is no punctuation in Greek

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Some have incorrectly assign the phrase toward individual salvation when it clearly is not but it is God choosing a way to save many by His action before the world was included in saving sinners.

 

Please, go back to school.

 

Of course, the Gift is actually persons, but most importantly--it is the Church--the bride of Christ.

And without delay, i will concur that i avoid individual election being imposed into a text, as i believe it's eisegesis. But, at the same time, if it is proven to be correct exegesis, i will hopefully, by the grace of God, lay down my pride and agree with what you assert

I like your train analogy

 

It is not a matter of education but believing the scripture rather than man.

 

I find these interesting, Jon...tell me more.

 

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.