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Romans has nothing to do with personal salvation

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019.

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  1. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Yes we are saved by faith. But anyone can join. That's the whole point of Romans, that God is free to use the Gentiles, as its all by faith anyway. The vessels he talks about are those two nations. Jacob and esau are two nations also.....unless you're in a denomination that needs to fill lots of pews. Then it suddenly becomes " better get saved or you might not be one of the elect" etc.
     
    #81 Ran the Man, Mar 8, 2019
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    From man's perspective, anyone can believe when the Gospel is presented to them.
    From God's perspective, only His elect will believe, while the rest will be blinded ( John 10:26, Romans 11:7-8, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

    That's part of the point of Romans, specifically parts of 8, 9, 10 and 11.
    The Gentiles have been grafted in...but they are still elect and chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

    The vessels He talks about are individuals...see Scripture defining who "vessels" are here:

    " Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." ( 1 Peter 3:7 )

    They were men whose descendants grew into two tribes, or "nations".
    One was Israel, one was Edom.
    God loved one man, Jacob, and blessed his heritage temporally for the sake of His love for Jacob.
    God hated the other man, and cursed his heritage ( Psalms 108:9, Psalms 60:8, Malachi 1:1-4 ).

    Abraham was an individual, whose sons grew into several tribes, or "nations".
    One was Israel, one was the Arabs, or "Ishmaelites"...the others I don't know about because Scripture really doesn't speak of them, from what I see.

    As for filling pews, the largest "Christian" denomination that successfully fills pews the world over, preaches that sinful, rebellious man's own, "powerful" will determines his destiny.
    You may have heard of it:

    The Roman Catholic Church.

    Yes, I'm keenly aware of what is preached out there in most "churches"...
    "You better do this to gain God's favor, or you're not one of the elect".

    It's called a false gospel that bases salvation on the works and efforts of men, and not the gifts and grace of God.
     
    #82 Dave G, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  3. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As Ran is now banned for denial of the inspiration of the Bible, so this thread is closed.
     
    #83 Squire Robertsson, Mar 10, 2019
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