Hello everyone from a church of Christ guy!

The Church of Christ places a slightly higher premium on baptism than the Baptist church (ironic given the names of the denominations), because the Church of Christ generally contends that belief and baptism are one phenomenon (and neither of them is a "work" - that's a myth!) They get that from Acts 2:38: "Believe and baptized, all of you". Whereas the Baptist doctrine splits the two things up, and you can do the baptism a bit more at your leisure.

I find the above a bit odd, and perhaps unfair. Stepping into water and allowing someone to put one briefly under and then raise one up is a physical act - I can't see that as anything but a work. That said, as a Baptist and Bible literalist I see baptism as essential, not for salvation but for obedience, and immersion is the only manner which fits the Romans 6 imagery of Christ's death, burial and resurrection. It's a believer's testimony of what Christ has already done.

The unfair thought relates to "at your leisure" and the experience of my wife and myself, each being saved while attending a mainline Methodist church decades ago. As babes in Christ in a church where the full Gospel was not being preached, we had little Christian growth for nearly 10 years. Finally, God worked to move us to attend a fundamental church, named "Bible" but thoroughly baptistic in doctrine and practice. However, that occurred in January, in the northern tip of Maine, and since the little rural church had no access to a baptistery, we had to wait (or chisel thru 3 feet of ice.) Baptisms were set for when the water was warmed up, which meant July, and my wife and I were then baptized at the first such opportunity. (The then-unsaved sister of another being baptized received Christ as Savior during the baptisms - she, at least, got baptized within minutes of salvation.)

 

Those of us who are born-again and follow the example of Christ in the waters of baptism are not viewed by God as wet sinners, but as obedient saints!

 

Ok.

I apologize for my misunderstanding.

 

I think this is where Baptists disagree with CoC.

For Baptists, Baptism is done out of obedience to God.

For CoC, Baptism is done as a requirement for salvation.

 

I do have one more question for the CoC guy before this thread closes.

Do you believe the future is exhaustively settled? Most on this forum on the Baptist side believe so. I am the rare exception. Exhaustively means every last detail. They either believe the future is exhaustively foreordained (Calvinism) or foreknown (Arminianism) by God.

Do you believe the future is exhaustively settled?

 

This

does not follow from this

But "That is because God operates above the threshold of time." is a stated belief of Plotinus.

Not stated in the Bible. I don't see why there would be no question.

Also not stated in the Bible.

Not really wanting to get into a long discussion about Classical Theism this since this thread will close soon anyway I was just curious about what one who grew up in CoC believed.

 

Very interesting and important point! I read a similar argument on the Answers for Church of Christ Beliefs: Faith and Repentance

The Church of Christ gospel “plan” is to hear, believe, repent, confess, and be “water” baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Here it is reasoned that if one will simply perform these “5 steps,” the believer will thereby save himself.

Notice that this plan places faith before repentance.

To those in the Churches of Christ, this is “common sense” because it is believed that ‘one must believe before he can repent.’ This view arises from their understanding of both “faith” and “repentance.”

“Faith” in the Churches of Christ is understood as nothing more than ‘intellectual assent” or accepting the facts of the Christian faith. To them it is believing God’s historical testimony about Himself, Jesus Christ, and that of the rest of the Bible.

Repentance on the other hand is understood as moral “self-reformation.”

In regards to faith, those in the Churches of Christ often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing on Jesus Christ for eternal life, and most cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief or assent from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Here, they will cite that “even the devils believe” (from James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of devils" is the same as any other faith except that the faith of devils lacks any moral or religious good works.

Thus, their understanding gives rise to their reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and faith, and yet as we will find, there is not a single scripture in the New Testament to support their view...

 

You need to use basic reading comprehension when you read the Bible and read the context. Peter is discussing with the followers about the fact that the wait was lasting longer than expected. He is not discussing metaphysics.

Peter wrote in the common Greek of the time. I'm sure he, inspired by God, would have written "God is not bound by time nor subject to it." if that is what he wanted to communicate. It takes a rather big ego to rewrite Peter's words to mean what you say they actually say.

Once again, these words are straight from Plotinus.

Job 37:16 - You are literally quoting an idiot in the Bible. Can you please read your passages in context?!

Here. This will help you with psalm 139.

understanding psalms 139

I'm not interested in what Plotinus has to say.

 

LOL,

Anytime someone disagrees with you and clearly shows your problems it's "nastiness." Now you're trying to win arguments through personal attacks.

You need to read 90:4 in context as well.

 

The first bolded part accurately depicts baptism by the Holy Spirit, which occurs at salvation. The 2nd describes water baptism of believers. To me, and to most Baptists (and many others), the Bible clearly differentiates the two.

 

As a Catholic, I realize I am 'playing in their sandbox' and don't expect the responses to be to my liking. I have been allowed to participate here for years even though some would claim I have left the Baptist faith for a cult. The last time I remember CoC members on this board they were eventually banned because it was determined they were here to proselytize. Personally, I don't know how you could determine who would be here to proselytize and who is here to learn from each other, but that was the reason given. At any rate, I think you clearly stated your reason for being here in the first post of this thread and I hope you stay here so that we can understand better the teachings of the CoC.