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Pope Francis Tells Christians Not to Try to Convert Nonbelievers

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by LowOiL, Jan 1, 2020.

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  1. LowOiL

    LowOiL Active Member

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    Headline is a little deceptive... basically Pope says not to talk to other folks of religion with the intention of converting them...

    QUOTE: ... The pope went on to say that a Christian should never try to convince others of the truth of Christianity, but should simply give a testimony of consistency and wait for others to ask about the faith.

    “You must be consistent with your faith,” he said. “It never occurred to me (and nor should it) to say to a boy or a girl: ‘You are Jewish, you are Muslim: come, be converted!’ You be consistent with your faith and that consistency is what will make you mature. We are not living in the times of the crusades.”

    “The last thing I should do is to try to convince an unbeliever. Never,” he said. “The last thing I should do is speak. I should live my faith with consistency. And it will be my witness that will awaken the curiosity of the other who may then ask: ‘But why do you do this?’ And yes, then I can speak.”

    “But listen, the gospel is never, ever advanced through proselytism,” he continued. “If someone says he is a disciple of Jesus and comes to you with proselytism, he is not a disciple of Jesus. Proselytism is not the way; the Church does not grow by proselytism.” /END QUOTE

    Pope Francis Tells Christians Not to Try to Convert Nonbelievers
     
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  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am not shedding tears of sadness over this. If the pope wants Roman Catholics to remain silent, praise God. Not so with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
     
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  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  4. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    I'm quite sure that wouldn't have been his stance at the time of the Revolutionary War, when the Colonists knew to fear the political nature of Catholicism and Catholicism was only 2% of our population. But now, being the true leftist that he is, and heavy migration of Catholicism into America, he's signaling to the left that he would not interfere in their agenda to legislate against the right to proselytize. The true objective of the attacks on freedom of speech. Always suspect that the Vatican has a political agenda, it always has and always will.
     
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  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I think the framers of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith rightly diagnosed the threat of Rome:

    26.4___The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
    ( Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11, 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9 ) (emphasis mine)

    I do not know if the Pope of Rome is the AntiChrist, but he certainly is the spirit of antichrist.
     
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  6. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    It's a rather cagey comment, because he says "If someone..." as if speaking for all of Christianity. The approach favors those who use things like rosaries publicly, or cross themselves publicly, etc.

    The claim is counter to true discipleship, as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as well as His earliest disciples evangelized publicly. The more obvious conclusion would be that for those claiming to be Christians, or at least the leadership, not to evangelize publicly would indicate they are not true disciples.
     
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  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    This fascist Peronist Pope may not even be a Catholic. He is guilty of covering up sexual crimes in both Buenos Aires & Rome. The Vatican is a dumpster fire under Pope Francis. His friends are Latin American communists, Jeffery Sachs, Planned Parenthood, & George Soros.
     
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  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    The Pope is lost and without Christ
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He disagrees with Lord Jesus, see the Great Commission!
     
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  10. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    I am very glad God raised up Calvin, Luther and the other reformers.

    The dream of the roaring lion of The Elector Frederick the Wise
    The Elector Frederick the Wise
     
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  11. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Yep, this is especially highlighted in the book Great Controversy:

    And don't forget that 'goose' John Huss, 100 years earlier:

    "... In the gloom of his dungeon he foresaw the triumph of the true faith. Returning in his dreams to the chapel at Prague where he had preached the gospel, he saw the pope and his bishops effacing the pictures of Christ which he had painted on its walls. "This vision distressed him: but on the next day he saw many painters occupied in restoring these figures in greater number and in brighter colors. As soon as their task was ended, the painters, who were surrounded by an immense crowd, exclaimed, 'Now let the popes and bishops come; they shall never efface them more!'" Said the Reformer, as he related his dream: "I maintain this for certain, that the image of Christ will never be effaced. They have wished to destroy it, but it shall be painted afresh in all hearts by much better preachers than myself."--D'Aubigne, b. 1, ch. 6. {GC 108.1} ..." - The Great Controversy, page 108.1

    Anyone can listen to the whole book here:



    "... "John Huss did more: prophetic words issued from the depths of his dungeon. He foresaw that a real reformation of the Church was at hand. When driven out of Prague and compelled to wander through the fields of Bohemia, where an immense crowd followed his steps and hung upon his words, he had cried out: “The wicked have begun by preparing a treacherous snare for the goose. But if even the goose, which is only a domestic bird, a peaceful animal, and whose flight is not very high in the air, has nevertheless broken through their toils, other birds, soaring more boldly towards the sky, will break through them with still greater force. Instead of a feeble goose, the truth will send forth eagles and keen-eyed vultures.” This prediction was fulfilled by the reformers.

    When the venerable priest had been summoned by Sigismund’s order before the council of Constance, and had been thrown into prison, the chapel of Bethlehem, in which he had proclaimed the Gospel and the future triumphs of Christ, occupied his mind, much more than his own defence. One night the holy martyr saw in imagination, from the depths of his dungeon, the pictures of Christ that he had painted on the walls of his oratory, effaced by the pope and his bishops. This vision distressed him: but on the next day he saw many painters occupied in restoring these figures in greater number and in brighter colors. As soon as their task was ended, the painters, who were surrounded by an immense crowd, exclaimed: “Now let the popes and bishops come! they shall never efface them more!” And many people rejoiced in Bethlehem, and I with them, adds John Huss.—” Busy yourself with your defence rather than with your dreams,” said his faithful friend, the knight of Chlum, to whom he had communicated this vision. “I am no dreamer,” replied Huss, “but I maintain this for certain, that the image of Christ will never be effaced. They have wished to destroy it, but it shall be painted afresh in all hearts by much better preachers than myself. The nation that loves Christ will rejoice at this. And I, awaking from among the dead, and rising, so to speak, from my grave, shall leap with great joy.” ..." - The History of the Reformation of the 16th Century, J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, Volume 1, Book 1, Chapter 6, page 30

    Said John Huss, "... “You are now going to burn a goose, but in a century you will have a swan which you can neither roast nor boil.” ..."

    Frederick of Saxony:


    "...The Elector Frederick of Saxony, say the chronicles of the time, was at his palace of Schweinitz, six leagues from Wittenberg, when, on the 31st October, early in the morning, being with his brother Duke John, who was then co-regent, and who reigned alone after his death, and with his chancellor, the elector said—”I must tell you of a dream, brother, which I had last night, and of which I should like to know the meaning. It is so firmly graven in my memory that I should never forget it, even were I to live a thousand years; for it came three times, and always with new circumstances.”

    Duke John.—”Was it a good or a bad dream?”

    The Elector.—”I cannot tell: God knows.”

    Duke John.—”Do not be uneasy about it: let me hear it.”

    The Elector.—”Having gone to bed last night, tired and dispirited, I soon fell asleep after saying my prayers, and slept calmly for about two hours and a half. I then awoke, and all kinds of thoughts occupied me till midnight. I reflected how I should keep the festival of All-Saints; I prayed for the wretched souls in purgatory, and begged that God would direct me, my councils, and my people, according to the truth. I then fell asleep again, and dreamt that the Almighty sent me a monk, who was a true son of Paul the Apostle. He was accompanied by all the saints, in obedience to God’s command, to bear him testimony, and to assure me that he did not come with any fraudulent design, but that all he should do was conformable to the will of God. They asked my gracious permission to let him write something on the doors of the palace-chapel at Wittenberg, which I conceded through my chancellor. Upon this, the monk repaired thither and began to write; so large were the characters that I could read from Schweinitz what he was writing. The pen he used was so long that its extremity reached as far as Rome, where it pierced the ears of a lion which lay there, and shook [96] the triple crown on the pope’s head. All the cardinals and princes ran up hastily and endeavoured to support it. You and I both tendered our assistance: I stretched out my arm that moment I awoke with my arm extended, in great alarm and very angry with this monk, who could not guide his pen better. I recovered myself a little it was only a dream.

    “I was still half asleep, and once more closed my eyes. The dream came again. The lion, still disturbed by the pen, began to roar with all his might, until the whole city of Rome, and all the states of the Holy Empire, ran up to know what was the matter. The pope called upon us to oppose this monk, and addressed himself particularly to me, because the friar was living in my dominions. I again awoke, repeated the Lord’s prayer, entreated God to preserve his holiness, and fell asleep

    “I then dreamt that all the princes of the empire, and we along with them hastened to Rome, and endeavoured one after another to break this pen; but the greater our exertions, the stronger it became: it crackled as if it had been made of iron: we gave it up as hopeless. I then asked the monk (for I was now at Rome, now at Wittenberg) where he had got that pen, and how it came to be so strong. ‘This pen,’ replied he, ‘belonged to a Bohemian goose a hundred years old. I had it from one of my old schoolmasters. It is so strong, because no one can take the pith out of it, and I am myself quite astonished at it.’ On a sudden I heard a loud cry: from the monk’s long pen had issued a host of other pens I awoke a third time: it was daylight.”

    Duke John.—”What is your opinion, Mr. Chancellor? Would that we had here a Joseph, or a Daniel, taught of God!”

    The Chancellor.—”Your highnesses know the vulgar proverb, that the dreams of young women, wise men, and great lords, have generally some hidden meaning. But we shall not learn the signification of this for some time, until the events have come to pass to which it relates. For this reason, confide its accomplishment to God, and commit all things into his hands.”

    Duke John.—”My opinion is the same as yours, Mr. Chancellor; it is not proper for us to rack our brains to discover the interpretation of this dream: God will direct everything to his own glory.”

    The Elector.—”May our faithful God do even so! Still I shall never forget this dream. I have thought of one interpretation but I shall keep it to myself. Time will show, perhaps, whether I have conjectured rightly.” ..." - The History of the Reformation of the 16th Century, J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, Volume 1, Book 3, Chapter 4, pages 95-96
     
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    And do not forget George Wishart:

    "... Wishart answered, "This fire torments my body, but noways abates my spirit." Then catching sight of the cardinal at the window with his courtiers, he added, "He who in such state, from that high place, feedeth his eyes with my torments, within few days shall be hanged out at the same window to be seen with as much ignominy as he now leaneth there in pride." This was literally fulfilled about two months later. ..."- The Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin. Volume VI (6) Scotland, Switzerland, Geneva, by the Rev. J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, D.D. Transalted by William L. R. Cates, joint author of Woodward and Cate's 'Encyclopedia of Chronology'; editor of 'The Dictionary of General Biography', etc.; London: Longmans, Green, and CO. 1875; London: Printed by Spottiswoode and Co., New-Street Square and Parliament Street; page 245-246 (PDF 268-269) - History of the Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin

    History of the Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin


    "... The cardinal fell under repeated blows, without a word heard out of his mouth except these, 'I am a priest! I am a priest! Fie, fie! All is gone!'

    … his partizans only cried the louder, 'We shall never depart till we see him,' still persuaded that he was alive. Then one or two men took up the body, and bearing it to the [page 254-255 (PDF 277-278)] very window at which a little while before Beauton had sat to contemplate with gladness, and as if in triumph, the execution of the pious Wishart, exposed it there to the gaze of all. Beauton's friends and the populace, struck with amazement and terror by the unexpected sight, and remembering Wishart's prediction, dispersed in gloom and consternation. ...” - The Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin. Volume VI (6) Scotland, Switzerland, Geneva, by the Rev. J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, D.D. Transalted by William L. R. Cates, joint author of Woodward and Cate's 'Encyclopedia of Chronology'; editor of 'The Dictionary of General Biography', etc.; London: Longmans, Green, and CO. 1875; London: Printed by Spottiswoode and Co., New-Street Square and Parliament Street; page 254-255 (PDF 277-278) - History of the Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin

    History of the Reformation in Europe in the time of Calvin

    Finally, Martin Luther himself said:

    "I hope the last Day of Judgment is not far, I persuade myself verily it will not be absent full three hundred years longer; for God's Word will decrease and be darkened for want of true shepherds and servants of God. The voice will sound and be heard ere long: Behold, the Bridegroom Cometh..." - [The familiar discourses of Dr. Martin Luther (the great reformer) (1818); page "7-8", last two lines, continued in top three lines] - http://archive.org/stream/familiardi...age/6/mode/2up or http://archive.org/stream/familiardi...age/7/mode/1up and

    And in 1830's-40's (300 years later), along came a Baptist, William Miller and did the very thing called for ...
     
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