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The Dispensation of the Grace of God - What It Means

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JD731, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians, the bedrock teaching of the church of Jesus Christ. It reveals "the mystery of Christ." Why is the mystery of Christ congruent with the church of Jesus Christ, also called the body of Christ, the temple of the Spirit of God, the house of God, and in Eph 5, the bride of Christ? What is the mystery and why is it a mystery? Why is it associated with "grace" as a dispensation of God and what is the difference between the dispensation of the fullness of times in chapter 1 and the dispensation of the grace of God in chapter 3? What will happen in the dispensation of the fullness of times according to Eph 1? Can Reformed teachers explain any of these things with any contextual clarity and reason and logic. Why is glorification a predestined hope of the body of Christ as a collective whole in Ephesians? Why is it indicated by the pronouns that it is gentiles that are saved and included in the body of Christ on the principle of grace rather than the Jews? On what divine principle does Ephesians and the NT teach us that Jews were in the body of Christ? Why is it relevant to know these things? What does Paul mean when he makes the following statement considering that he was not even saved during the first 7 years of the formation of the church?

    Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
    8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

    Why were the other apostles not given this grace? Are Reformed believers faithful stewards of the mysteries of God? Will stewards be accountable to God if they confuse them? Just how important are these mysteries of God and is it wise to ignore them?

    1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
    2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

    Titus 1:7
    For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God;

    What do you think?
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Is there any place in the Bible that even hints at dispensations?
     
  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The answer is yes. The word shows up 7 times in the scriptures. As a usual thing with the number 7, it is translated 3 times as "stewardship" and 4 times as "dispensations." However, I do not want to discuss dipensationalism but only what is meant by these two times the word is used in Ephesians. What ever you believe about dispensationalism, you must admit the word is in your bible and Paul says you need to understand the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to him particularly.

    What is this mystery of Christ he wants us to know about?
     
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The OP asks this question:
    "Why were the other apostles not given this grace?"

    My answer is that every person made alive with Christ has received the grace of God.

    If the OP is asking why Paul was given a different task to accomplish, I can only say that our Sovereign King chooses as he wills regarding the works he has ordained us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)
     
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  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Philippians 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel.
     
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  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The mystery of Christ, as I understand His word to teach, is this:

    " But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" ( 1 Corinthians 1:30 ).


    " Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
    7 but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
    8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
    11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
    ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-13 ).

    The mystery that I see above is Jesus Christ as Saviour, who is made many things to His sheep.
    He is the wisdom of God, the righteousness of God, the sanctification of God and the redemption of God.
    His people ( the church ) have been given His Spirit, so that they might know the things that are freely given to them by God.



    " how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    4 whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"
    ( Ephesians 3:3-6 ).

    The mystery of Christ that I see here is the inclusion of Gentiles into those that He has given the gift of eternal life to.


    Anyone outside of the body of Christ ( His church ), in the spiritual sense, will not be able to.
     
    #6 Dave G, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  7. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I see that Jesus Christ, as many things to His sheep, is a "mystery" because not all men will believe on Him, and not all men will believe ( from the heart, see Matthew 13 and Acts of the Apostles 8:37 ) the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    It is the wisdom of God, not the wisdom of men.

    That mystery has to be revealed through the Spirit,
    Making it a mystery to all to whom it has not been revealed.

    Please see Matthew 11:25-27.
     
    #7 Dave G, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Dispensation:
    • archaic
      an act of divine providence.
      "the laws to which the creator in all his dispensations conforms"
    From my perspective, Paul was given the grace of God by an act of divine providence...
    A "dispensation" of His grace.
    In other words, it was "dispensed" ( given ) to him by the Lord.

    So,
    The mystery of Christ is all that Paul, an apostle by the will of God ( Ephesians 1:1 ), was given to him by revelation ( Ephesians 3:2 ) to preach by the grace of God.
    It is contained within the epistles that He had Paul write through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
     
    #8 Dave G, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they will.

    " My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
    2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body."
    ( James 3:1-2 ).

    God's teachers and preachers have been given a very special job...
    To teach the word of God and His doctrines without error, and to direct His children to the very words on the pages.

    They are to do so with no regard to money, and with no regard to self-promotion.
    Their job is to serve the body of Christ selflessly and for the benefit and glory of Jesus Christ alone.
    In addition, all of His people are to be good stewards of the manifold ( many fold, having many parts ) grace of God that is given to them...
    Whatever their spiritual gifts may be.


    May God bless you greatly in your studies of His word.
     
    #9 Dave G, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The church bodies Divinely Instituted by Jesus Christ, which He Founded in the first one at Jerusalem, are Organization and Organisms.

    They exist to this day, as His Bride, and the mystery of those churches is that they were Commissioned to go make disciples, by preaching the Gospel.

    Disciples are children of God.

    The mystery of Christ and His churches is that they Generate offspring.

    Those that are Saved by their ministry and other churches which are formed from them, are pictures as the Result of the marriage Relationship, by Christ as their Head and Husband and those specific Faithful Divinely Organized bodies with the Authority to preach and baptize are Jesus' Bride.

    ...
    Yes 'dispensations', 'one big universal invisible church', 'the millinium', or 'tribulation', 'we came from a monkey'...none of those can be found in the words of The Bible, or taught in ANY way that Satan has redefined them into, any more than, " I just healed your goul blatter", or 'spirit baptism, etc.

    Dispensations spoken of in The Bible, prior to Satan's twisting of them championed by the Scofield Bible, are Administrations.

    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

    The Two Major Stewardships, by God, of The ONE Eternal Covenant of Grace are The Two Testaments.

    The Triune Godhead Administered The ONE Eternal Covenant of Grace differently, in some ways, in those Two Major Stewardships.

    Other 'sub-Administration', by God, are seen in His various Old Testament Covenants.

    Those periods are different Economies in which God Structured His Organized Oversight and Superintendence of His One Overall Eternal Covenant of Grace and Plan of Salvation, differently, however always with Jesus as The Savior; the Same, yesterday, today, and Forever.

    Again, "1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,"
     
    #10 Alan Gross, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  11. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Alan Gross for your comments, but you did not answer a single question I asked in the op. You just spewed out what amounts to be gibberish and apart from He 1:1-2 you said nothing that is true. There is absolutely no such thing as a covenant of grace in the scriptures. Either you or someone else made that up. It is what I call adding to the word of God and carries a great penalty that no one wants to face. I am sorry for being so blunt but sometimes plain speech is best.
     
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  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You have quite an od religion. Sorry.
     
  13. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    You live in a world where men can do anything but believe the gospel of Jesus Christ,and be saved and you think I am odd? You think God wrote a great big bible of 66 books for the express purpose of telling the world that he despises them so much he wants them to know he will not save them and he will be glad to cast them into hell, and you think I am strange? You want the rest of the world to know you are so special to God that he chose you before your mother and father did and your good works is the only confirmation of his favor you can point to, and not being able to quote God saying he liked you any better than he liked anyone else in the world and you are pinning your hope of eternity on a theology like that and somehow that makes you the most spiritual person in the room?

    I asked you to make sense out of things Paul wrote in Ephesians concerning the mystery of Christ, his words not mine, and you basically said they don't have any effect on your theology.

    I am not the odd duck here.
     
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  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, you think like the world...
     
  15. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What is the difference between the dispensation of the fullness of times in Ephesians chapter 1 and the dispensation of the grace of God in chapter 3? What is "the fullness of times in the context of Ephesians and the mystery of Christ?

    10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    What is this action that defines the dispensation of the fullness of times? Has it happened already, is it happening now, or will it happen in the future?

    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    Is Eph 3:6 a short definition of the mystery of Christ? That verse says;

    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Fellowheirs? Partakers? Mystery? The grace of God? Given only now?

    What does the following statement mean?


    Ep 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    Who believes the words of the bible as they are written? Can Reformed faith endure under the scrutiny of literal word meanings and context?
     
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  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Here are the two passages. I read them and see no conflict nor any contradiction. Both express the Sovereign rule and choice of God regarding sinful man.

    Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

    Ephesians 3:1-13 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.
     
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Dispensation of the Grace of God
    - What It Means

    The Dispensation of the Grace of God

    - Means: 1,000 years.
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I do not know of any evidence for any of these statements and I do not believe any evidence exists.

    God wrote a great big bible of 66 books for the express purpose of telling the world that he despises SIN so much he wants them to know he will not save them and he will be glad to cast them into hell, APART FROM THE ELECT CHILDREN of GOD, from ETERNITY PAST, that GOD CHOSE, by The Good Pleasure of His Own Will.

    DAMNATION, or as Gill says, here:

    "Pre-damnation is God's Appointment, or Preordination of men to Condemnation for sin; and is what is spoken of in #Jude 1:4.

    "There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation";

    and who are described by the following characters,

    "ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and, or even our Lord Jesus Christ";


    which, when observed, is sufficient to clear this decree of God from the charge of cruelty and injustice: and this, by some, is called, positive reprobation.

    The word krima, translated "condemnation", in the above quoted text, some render "judgment", and interpret it of judicial blindness and hardness of heart;

    which appeared in the persons embracing and spreading false and pernicious doctrines spoken of;

    and this is, indeed, what they are foreordained, or appointed to, as a punishment of former sins;

    for this hardness, &c. presupposes former sins, and an obstinately continued course in them;

    either against the light and law of nature, which they like not to walk according to, and therefore God gives them up, pursuant to his decree, to a reprobate mind, to do things not convenient, #Ro 1:24,28
    or against divine revelation, precepts, counsels, and admonitions,

    like Israel of old, hearken not to the voice of the Lord, in his word, nor paying any regard to his instructions; and therefore he gives them up, as he determined to do, to their own hearts' lusts, and to walk in their own counsels, #Ps 81:11,12

    and this is the sense of the word in #Joh 9:39.

    God hardens some men's' hearts, as he did Pharaoh's, and he wills to harden them, or he hardens them according to his decreeing will;

    "Whom he will he hardeneth", #Ro 9:18

    this he does not by any positive act, by infusing hardness and blindness into the hearts of men;

    which is contrary to his purity and holiness, and would make him the author of sin;

    but by leaving men to their natural blindness and hardness of heart; for the understanding is naturally darkened;

    and there is a natural blindness, hardness, and callousness of heart, through the corruption of nature, and which is increased by habits of sinning; men are in darkness, and choose to walk in it;

    and therefore God, as he decreed, gives them up to their own wills and desires, and to Satan, the god of the world, they choose to follow, and to be led captive by, who blinds their minds yet more and more, lest light should break in unto them, #Eph 4:18 #Ps 82:5 2Co 4:4

    and also God may be said to harden and blind, by denying them that grace which can only cure them of their hardness and blindness, and which he, of his free favor, gives to his chosen ones, #Eze 36:26,27

    but is not obliged to give it to any;

    and because he gives it not, he is said to hide, as he determined to hide, the things of his grace from the wise and prudent, even because it so seemed good in his sight, #Mt 11:25,26."
     
  19. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    How did the simple gospel that Our Lord said a child can understand ever come to this?
     
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  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It is simple.
    Preach reconciliation. All who respond positively in faith have been chosen by God to respond this way. All who remain in rebellion are/were not chosen. The Bible is very clear and not confused on this truth at all. Why can you not accept this truth as it is clearly taught in the Bible?
     
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