1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

When Did Abraham Inherit the Promise?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Mar 10, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Should the question be asked that a parable is another way of saying the truth of the reality we live in as a true story does?
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    k
     
  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not believe Strong's Concordance or all knowledge on translation is known. Since there are different definitions to the Greek word, then how it is used in the verse defines its usage.

    So in the context of the message .. if there was only one resurrection, then why cite an order by how men will be resurrected?

    Then we have Zechariah 14:1-5 of Jesus setting foot on the Mount of Olives in coming back with the saints to do battle against the armies marching against Jerusalem.

    But in Revelation 20:1-6 Satan is already in the pit for a thousand years when He resurrected those saints as described as coming out of the great tribulation. That means He is on earth when that so called "first resurrection" took place which many believers err as being that rapture event but it cannot be. Revelation 20:5 is the explanation of why they used the term "first resurrection" as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

    There is His appearing as the Bridegroom when He will judge His House first and then there is that coming as the King of kings when that resurrection is when He s on earth in meeting them, not in the air as at that rapture event as the Bridegroom in receiving the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage supper to be held in Heaven..

    So when aligning the truth in His words, Christ the firstfruits is plural after all with Christ, regardless of intellectual studies, and they that be Christ's at His coming sets the order of how men will be raised up.

    I could go on to give another example of lack of knowledge in Strong's Concordance regarding that hell in Matthew 5:22-26 is about hell on earth per Deuteronomy 32:22 because of Matthew 18:21-35 is addressing brothers as saved believers for why if saved believers do not repent, they will be cut off for not abiding in Him ( John 15:1-8 ) & be left behind for not being ready when Christ comes Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25.

    Please ask Jesus to confirm this because scripture paints the rapture event as when God will judge His House first 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful to keep the souls left behind as they incur physical death but their spirits are saved 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First resurrection is at Second Coming, while Second at end of Millennium!
     
  5. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Read post #43 with His help again, brother. You are missing something important. Ask Him what it is. Study the scripture with Him.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The First resurrection is either the rapture or Second Coming, depending on how one views it!
     
  7. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The rapture is a resurrection & a gathering of those still living to meet the Lord in the air to be forever with the Lord in Heaven per 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

    The so called "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:1-6 at His coming is not the actual first resurrection but that resurrection was to happen "first" before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment. That is the reason why first resurrection was phrased for using per Revelation 20:5.

    As it is, Satan is defeated & in the pit for a thousand years so Jesus is already on earth when that resurrection happens after the great tribulation. So the first resurrection is NOT the rapture event of meeting the Lord in the air.
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I did not say there is one resurrection.
    Jesus, singular, about 2000 years ago was resurrected out of the dead. Jesus and only Jesus. The first-fruit.
    When Jesus Christ comes again, to the earth, those who are Christ's old and new testament, will be resurrected and rule with Christ 1000 years.
    After the 1000 years, the rest of mankind, will be resurrected and judged ?

    After that, there will be no more death.
     
  9. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How about this; cite which Bible version you are using for "Christ the firstfruit" is singular without the s on the end.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist

    1 Corinthians 15 :: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,


    Just found something weird, YLT Translates the same Greek in verse 20 thus:
    And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,

    Why would they do that? Some of the Greek gurus on the board need to explain.

    I believe in V 20 it has something to do with the definite article but not sure.

    In the NT YLT pl only once and sig the other 7 times used.


    Interesting.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The fact that the account in Luke 16:19-31 is to be understood as an actual event rules it out as a paralble.
    Abraham, Moses, the prophets, and by reason another person is named as well rules this account out as a parable.
     
  12. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for sharing.

    As we prophesy in part and know in part, is why we need to rely on Him for the meaning of His words because not everything known about translating the scripture is known ether.

    So it is good to give pause to only seeing firstfruit as singular when scripture does refer to others as being firstfruits and other Bibles has firstfruits as plural as the KJV does.

    At this link are other applications to firstfruits in scripture.

    BibleGateway - Keyword Search: firstfruits

    So per your discovery..

    1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;

    afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    One may be able to discern with Him that there is an order by how all men in Christ shall be made alive.
     
  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I understand what you are saying and I can agree with you that it is an actual event.

    I shall try to rely on Him not to refer to that as a parable. but I am not convinced that it is not a parable.

    Case in point in how Jesus began this story earlier.

    Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

    My point is that He does not always announce He is telling a parable. He spoke of a certain rich man in Luke 16:1 in a different way as referring to the rich man in Luke 16:19 just as He spoke of a certain beggar named Lazarus in Luke 16:20

    So are His stories the same as His parables? It looks that way to me as conveying the truth in His words.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ok. We do seem not agree on this matter.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It does seem to appear that way, yes. We agree to disagree. We can always hope in the Lord to correct us as we walk with Him in His words. After all He is our Good Shepherd.
     
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OP

    When did Abraham inherit the promise?

    IMHO the promise is, eternal life, in body, incorruptible. And I do not believe anyone can inherit, that eternal life, apart from resurrection out of the dead and or instant change, if still alive in flesh and blood.

    I believe, to date, the only one created and or born of woman who has been raised out of the dead, to die no more, no more to return to corruption, is Jesus of Nazareth, the seed of David, the seed of Abraham, the Son of the living God.

    Therefore I do not believe Abraham has yet received, the promise.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for sharing. I am at this time uncertain regarding the bodies of O.T. saints because of this.

    Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

    To discern whether or not the resurrected bodies of the O.T. saints were taken within Paradise to Heaven by Him, or just their spirits were taken to await the actual firstfruits of the resurrection, thus a temporary life on earth, we find this scripture.

    Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

    Seems like only the spirits of the O.T. saints within Paradise were taken up to Heaven along with Paradise, and that resurrection was temporary one in Matthew 27:52-53.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe that to have been a unique special event, not part of the the first resurrection in which Christ is the first fruits of it, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Romans 8:29, 1 John 3:2.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for sharing. I agree Christ is the firstfruit as in firstborn and per my view the rapture event, there will be firsfruits with the Bridegroom as they that be Christ's will be raised after the great tribulation to serve the King of kngs.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...