Pro-vax and Anti-vax Totalitarianism

Depends. I am good with the federal government setting standards for federal entities (when I joined the Army I could not opt out of vaccines....they liked us up and shot us with am air injector).

I have no problem with health agencies requiring vaccinations for their employees (they have to look after the best interest of their patients). We may disagree with what may be determine to be in the best interest, but it is not our call.

As far as air travel, I would certainly be in favor of requiring a vaccination. All data so far points to varient viruses coming from mainly unvaccinated populations (mainly India and Africa).

When it comes to companies like Walmart.....well....I leave that up to the individual company. The market will determine their actions. If they cannot get customers or employees then they will change their policy.

So if the federal government required everyobe to be vaccinated in order to be employed then that would be overstepping its authority. That is up to the employer...we aren't communists, after all (Godfather reference).

 

This is a false statement.

I am not saying all who reject the vaccine are "anti-vax", but both sides that are trying to force their opinions on others (either by forced vaccination-banning vaccination or persuading others either way) are the same.

That you do not recognize these agendas has no bearing on facts.

Recently there was tge claim that if you get vaccinated you will probably be dead within 5 years. There is misinformation on both sides - people trying to impose their agendas on others via deceit.

 

I single out airlines because of international and interstate travel.

You are wrong. I did not start a thread about anti-vaxe totalitarianism. Please re-read the title and OP.

To clarify - you do not believe the thread claiming that most vaccinated people will die within 5 years is focused at disuading people from getting vaccinated???

What I am saying is tge federal government requiring the vaccine for federal positions is not mandating all be vaccinated. My experience in the military is one example.

Another example us the DOE may mandate vaccines (I hear talk but don't know the future). At our site we had over 2,000 covid cases. We have had deaths. But only the unvacvinated had serious effects. We have to maintain the facility (no choice....we can't close down) so I would agree with requiring vaccines as a condition of employment.... at least for essential personnel. Looking at the data here, unvaccinated employees could not only be detrimental to the mission but dangerous to the surrounding community.

 

No. I am in favor of the free-market system within each state. When it comes to unvacvinated travel via air we are talking about exposure and spread.

I agree about the equivalent of saying most will die within 5 years if unvacvinated ... both are ignorant claims and both are fearmongering. But that is what I mean by "pro-vax" and "anti-vax". I was responding to your comment that you were unaware of this anti-vax element.

We are trying to cover too much here - and perhaps talking past one another on a couple of points.


By "pro-vax and anti-vax I am not isolating people into groups based on their opinions. I am talking about groups that have an agenda to persuade people to their view regardless of actual facts (by using data manuplation, partial truths, and outright misinformation). I have seen this on both sides.

I believe we would agree these agendas are wrong.

The more interesting point is where we stand on mandates. I used the federal government while you seem to be asking about the state government.

My view is the state government should be first in the governance of its people. So if SC DHEC requires employees to be vaccinated then I'm good with that. Right or wrong these officials have the duty to consider the health of those within their area of responsibility. So I would not mind hospitals having to have its staff vaccinated.

If the DOE requires vaccination then my job would be dependent on being vaccinated. If you drive a truck you have to pass a physical. Fail tge physical - lose your job. If you work at the police station you cannot smoke pot. Smoke pot and lose your job. OR.....find a job that does not have those requirements.

 

I am not opposed to state governments requiring a vaccine for certain businesses.

 

What I am saying is this vaccination is like most vaccinations (flu, measles, etc) in that it provides protection from serious side-effects and death at a rate much greater than the risks associated with the virus itself.

From what I have read the US and other countries are pursuing other methods.

We always have to make decisions about our freedoms and employment.

 

I would have agreed until fairly recently. Perhaps it is out of fear, but the anti-vax agenda could be worse insofar as lying to people the loudest.

 

It depends on who you listened to. Those I considered did not lie to me, BUT I am very selective. I have not seen anything that was not considered in advance.

 

Told? No. I didn't ask. I looked it up before making a decision.

Based on clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine (the vaccine I took) was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of previously being infected with the virus. The actual numbers are provided from the trials.

The lie anti-vaxers tell is that the vaccine claims to be 94.1% effective - leaving out the part where this was in clinical trials.

What I read was the trials and results, including the side-effects.