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The Unbound Scriptures, by Rick Norris - A Response

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Will J. Kinney, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    How do you know? Have you ever read either of them? Have you compared them? Do you know where the 8 differences are? Can you list them?
     
  2. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    List 3 places where the NKJV departs from the TR. Just 3. Don't bother with the 40%, just 3 will do.

    [ April 30, 2004, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: skanwmatos ]
     
  3. Will J. Kinney

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    How many years of famine, Michelle? What was omitted or changed?
    --------------------------------------------------
    Nothing was omitted or changed. Just because you do not understand these verses, does not make it what you see it as. The KJV is a faithful translation of God's words of truth. What you need to do, to understand the word of God, is seek understanding, wisdom and knowledge from the Lord in prayer and he will show you, either right away, or eventually. He will show you. To say these things are contradictions, and need to be corrected, is a lie. An outright lie, and changes the truth of God into a lie by trying to fix something that does not need fixing, but needs rather a desire to understand and make that effort to understand.
    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle

    Hi Michelle, there is a logical, reasonable and Scriptural explanation for this apparent contradiction. I'm sure you will receive it, but others, like Roby, have no interest in defending the true words of God but would rather prefer to say the Hebrew texts were corrupted than admit the King James Bible got it right.




    7 years or 3 years of famine?

    II Samuel 24:13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall SEVEN years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land?

    I Chronicles 21:11-12 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Choose thee either THREE years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;or else three days the sword of the Lord, even the pestilence, in the land...

    There are many atheistic, Islamic and Bible Debunker sites on the internet which contain longs lists of supposed contradictions in the Bible.

    On one Islamic site listing "101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible" this is number four.

    Contradiction #4

    God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

    (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13).

    (b) Three (1 Chronicles 21:12).

    Those Christians who continue to use the modern versions like the NASB, NIV, and NKJV will typically answer these objections in this way which is taken directly from the Apologetics Index.

    "It is probably a copyist error and the better preserved text renders the famine as three years -- Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985."

    Another modern version site by the name of Tecktonic.org Apologetics Ministries has this to say: "Were there seven years of famine offered, or three (per 1 Chronicles 21:11)? Three is the more likely reading, favored by the LXX and by symmetry with the other punishments offered (three months of flight from enemies, three days of plague). Samuel was hit by a copyist error. See our foundational essay on copyist errors for general background. "

    So, Samuel was hit by a copyist error, was he? Where was God during this whole process?

    Another site that calls itself Rational Christianity - Christian Apologetics, which uses the NKJV has this to say: "This is a copyist error Presumably the correct number is three, since the other choices are threes.

    In 2 Samuel 24: 13 the prophet Gad comes to David and says: "Shall SEVEN years of famine come unto thee in thy land?"

    SEVEN years is the reading of the Hebrew text here as the NIV, RSV, NRSV, and ESV footnotes tell us. The reading of THREE YEARS comes from the Greek Septuagint version, but not the Hebrew.

    The false reading in 2 Samuel 24:13 of THREE years is found in the NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NEB, Bible in Basic English, and the New Living Translation.

    Those versions that agree with the KJB reading of SEVEN years are the Geneva Bible, the Revised Version, ASV, the Jewish translations of 1917, 1936, the Spanish Reina Valera, the Italian Diodati, NASB, Douay, Young's, NKJV, the Living Bible and even the Syriac versions.

    This is really a very simple "contradiction" to solve if one just believes God's word as found in the King James Bible and takes the time to read it carefully.

    Only in the book of 2 Samuel are we told in chapter 21:1 "Then there was a famine in the days of David THREE years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.

    David then, as requested by the Gibeonites, had seven men of the sons of Saul put to death by hanging in "the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of the barley harvest." This couldn't have been much of a harvest because the famine was still in the land. They would then have to wait till next year for a good crop.

    Next we read of king David telling Joab to go and number the people of Israel. This census taking seems to have been a vain attempt by David to boast in the power of the flesh. See how stong I am and how many people I command. This was the sin that brought about the threatened judgment of more famine by God.

    It is important to see that this numbering of the people took a period of 9 months and 20 days as is noted in 2 Samuel 24:8. "So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days."

    So, what we have here is four years of famine that had already preceeded the time when Gad comes to David and says in 2 Samuel 24:13 "Shall SEVEN years of famine come unto thee in the land?"

    But when we look at 1 Chronicles, there is no mention of the famine that had already been going on before David numbered the people. There in 1 Chronicles we read: "Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee either THREE years' famine: or three months to be destroyed before thy foes...or else three days the sword of LORD, even the pestilence..."

    So to answer the question: "Were there seven years of famine or only three?", the correct answer is BOTH. There were seven years of famine altogether; four had already occurred and three more years were threatened as a further judgment.

    The King James Bible is right as always.
     
  4. Will J. Kinney

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    Skan posts :"List 3 places where the NKJV departs from the TR. Just 3. Don't bother with the 40%, just 3 will do."


    OK, Skan, here are quite a few more than three.

    When the new King James Bible departs from the underlying Greek text of the King James Bible.

    Matthew 5:37 “But let your COMMUNICATION be, Yea, Yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh OF EVIL.”

    The Greek texts read: estw de HO LOGOS humwn nai, nai, ou, ou. to de perisson toutwn ek tou ponerou estin.

    Tyndale and the Geneva Bibles agree word for word with the KJB. The NASB agrees with the KJB. However there are several problems with the NKJV. First of all, the NKJV omits the word “communication”, then it adds “and your”, and finally changes the meaning of “from evil” to “from THE EVIL ONE.” Of evil is the reading of Tyndale, Geneva, NASB, RSV, and the ESV.

    The NKJV reads: “But let your Yes be Yes, (omits “communication”), AND YOUR (added to text) No, No. For whatsoever is more than these is from THE EVIL ONE.” Christ is speaking about the evil that comes from our own hearts, not about Satan.

    Matt 18:26 (KJV) The servant therefore fell down, AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

    Matt 18:26 (NKJV) "The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' (NASV, NIV, NRSV) The word “worshipped him” is in all Greek texts and even in the Revised Version and the American Standard Version. The NKJV just chose to omit it as did the NASB, NIV.

    Matthew 18:35, “if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother THEIR trespasses”. Majority and C have “their trespasses”, but the Sinaticus and Vaticanus omit, so ‘their’ is not in the NASB or NIV. However the NKJV says, “HIS trespasses”, and ‘his’ is not found in any manuscript. “Their” trespasses is found in other Bibles which are based on the Textus Receptus of the KJB, as are Tyndale, Geneva, and Young’s translation.

    Matthew 22:10, “THE WEDDING was furnished with guests”. The “wedding” is ‘o gamos’, and is found in the majority, D, B(2), Tyndale, and Geneva; but Sinaticus says ‘o numphon’, the “wedding hall”. The NKJV follows the NASB/NIV with “wedding hall”.

    Matthew 24:13, “But he that endureth unto the end, THE SAME shall be saved.” The word for THE SAME here is ‘houtos’ and is rendered as ‘the same’ in Tyndale, the R.V., ASV, and others. This word adds emphasis, and the NASB reads, “It is he who shall be saved.” The NKJV joins the NIV in omitting this word, and says merely, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved.”

    Matthew 24:40 “THE one shall be taken, and the other left”, there is a definite article before “the one” which is in the majority and TR but is omitted in N (Sinaticus) and B (Vaticanus) and the NKJV also omits it.

    Matthew 25:17, “And likewise he that had received two, HE ALSO, gained other two.” Here these two little words, kai autos, are found in the majority, TR and A, but W/H omits them and doesn’t even show them as an alternative reading. The NKJV also omits them like the NASB and NIV. It says, “And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.” The Geneva, Young’ s, Darby, Webster’s, World English Bible, Hebrew Names Version, 21st Century KJB, and the Third Millenium Bible agree with the KJB.

    Matthew 26:45, “Sleep on now and take our rest,” is a statement in the majority, in the original Wescott/Hort text, the ASV, Revised Version, Tyndale, Geneva, and Douay. But the UBS (United Bible Society) has changed this to a question, and now the NKJV follows the NASB/NIV in making it a question. The NKJV has, “Are you still sleeping and resting?”.

    In Mark 9:25, All the texts describe the spirt that attacked a father’s son from his youth as “Thou DUMB and DEAF spirit, I charge thee come out of him.” The RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, Tyndale, and Geneva read as the KJB does, “dumb and deaf” spirit. But the NKJV, NIV and NAS have reversed these two words and say: “you DEAF and DUMB spirit”. This is not even following their own UBS texts.

    Mark 12:25 “...nor are given in marriage; but are as THE (hoi) angels which are in heaven.” Here the word “the” (hoi) is found in the Majority of all texts as well as Vaticanus and A, and is even in the NIV. However Sinaiticus and C omit the definite article and so do the NKJV, NASB, RSV.

    Luke 1:35, “that holy thing which shall be born OF THEE (ek sou) shall be called the Son of God.” The phrase, ‘of thee’, is found in the TR of the KJB, C, Theta, f1, many cursives, the Old Latin, Lamsa’s 1933 translation from the Syriac Peshitta, the Geneva Bible, and the Italian Diodati, which precedes the KJB. It is quoted by many church fathers, including, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, AthaNASius, Origen, Agustine, and others. Yet the NKJV, NIV, and NAS, omit these two little words from their translations.

    Luke 5:7 “they beckoned unto their partners WHICH (tois) were in the other ship. Tois (which) is found in the majority, A.C. and TR, but is omitted in N & B, and the NKJV also omits this word as do the NASB/NIV.

    Luke 6:4 “It is not lawful to eat but for the priests ALONE (monous). “ALONE” is found in all texts, and is in the NASB too, but the NKJV unites with the NIV in omitting this word. The NKJV reads: “it is not lawful for any but the priests.”

    Luke 6:9 “Is it lawful on the Sabbath DAYS to do good or to do evil?”. Here the majority, A and TR have “days” plural, but N & B have the singular. The NKJV follows NASB/NIV and says: “on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil?”

    Luke 12:49 is a question in the Textus Receptus of the KJB, and also a question in the R.V, and ASV, Tyndale, Geneva and even the Douay. However, the UBS has once again changed and the NASB, NIV, and NKJV unite in making it an exclamation. The KJB says:” I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?” But the NKJV says: “and how I wish it were already kindled!”

    Luke 16:14 “And the Pharisees ALSO, who were covetous...” Here the Majority, the TR and A have KAI oi farisaioi. Tyndale and Geneva both read exactly as the KJB. Westcott/Hort omit the little word and/kai because not in B. Sinaticus omits the whole phrase. The NKJV likewise follows B here and has: “Now the Pharisees who were lovers of money...”

    Luke 17:18 “There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.” In the Textus Receptus of the KJB this is a statement. It reads the same in the Geneva Bible, Tyndale, Darby and Young’s translation. But the W/H text has this verse as a question. The NKJV follows the NASB and NIV in saying: “Were there not found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?”

    Luke 22:10 “follow him into the house WHERE he entereth in.” Here the majority, TR, A and D have “where”- hou, which is an adverb of place. It is used in Luke 4:16,17 “where he had been brought up”, and “found the place where it was written”. It is curious that even the RV and ASV, along with Young’s and Darby read “where”. But the W/H text reads EIS HEN- INTO WHICH instead of “where”. The NKJV follows W/H with: “follow him into the house WHICH he enters.”

    The NKJV is also wrong in the next verse where all texts say: “Where is the guestchamber, WHERE I shall eat the passover with my disciples?” Here the word is hopou or where, and is so translated even by the RSV, NRSV, and NIV. But the NKJV and NASB have “Where is the guest room IN WHICH I may eat...”


    John 10:6 “This parable spake Jesus UNTO THEM”, autois - to them, is in all texts and even in the NASB, but the NKJV unites with the NIV in omitting it and says: “Jesus used this illustration”. Parable is also the rendering of the RV, ASV, Geneva, Douay and Jerusalem Bible. But the NKJV says “used” instead of “spake: eipon. The NKJV also omits the verb in the latter part of this verse. “But they understood not what things THEY WERE which they spake unto them.” The verb is in all texts and even in the NASB, but the NKJV unites with the NIV and omits it. The NKJV says: “they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.” - thus omitting the verb.

    John 10:12 The Majority, TR and A read “and the wolf catcheth THEM and scattereth THE SHEEP. Here Vaticanus/Sinaticus omit “the sheep” and so the NASB has “scatters (them) as though not in the text, while the NIV paraphrases as usual and has “wolf attacks THE FLOCK and scatters IT.” But the NKJV reverses the Greek order of words and has: “the wolf catches THE SHEEP and scatters THEM.”

    John 11:18 “about FIFTEEN furlongs off” the NKJV changed the Greek numbers to ‘TWO miles away.”

    John 12:40 “and BE CONVERTED” is a passive verb both in English and in Greek, but the NKJV changed it into an active verb “lest they SHOULD TURN”. We cannot be converted unless God Himself turns us.

    John 12:48 “The word that I have spoken, THE SAME (ekeinos) shall judge him in the last day.” This word is in all texts and in the emphatic position but the NKJV has omitted it along with the NIV/NASB.

    John 14:9 “Have I been so long TIME (chronos) with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Phillip?” TIME is in all texts but the NKJV decided to omit it along with the NASB, though it is in the NIV.

    14:10 The NKJV omitted another word in the emphatic position. “but the Father that dwelleth in me, HE (autos) doeth the works.” The NKJV again omits this word.

    John 14:30 presents a bad translation resulting in bad theology by the NKJV. The KJB, ASV, Geneva, RV, Spanish, Douay and even the NIV say: “the PRINCE of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” The NKJV and NASB call Satan the RULER of this world. God is the Ruler of this world, not Satan.

    John 18:11 “the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink IT? IT (auto) is in all texts but the NKJV omitted it.

    John 18:20 “I always taught in THE SYNAGOGUE”. The TR has en TE sunagogee, singular, but the other texts omit the definite article, and the NKJV says “I always taught in synagogueS”, along with the NASB/NIV.

    John 18:24. Here the NKJV, NIV, NAS create a contradiction, not because of the text but by the way they have translated it. The KJB, as well as the Spanish, Diodati, Webster’s, 21st Century KJB and Geneva Bible, have correctly translated the phrase as: “ Now AnNAS HAD SENT him bound unto Caiaphas the high priest.” The fact that AnNAS had already sent Jesus to Caiaphas can be seen from verses 13 and 19 of this same chapter, as well as from Mat.26:57, Mark 14:55 and Luke 22:54. The NKJV,NAS and NIV blunder here in saying: “THEN AnNAS SENT Him bound to Caiaphas the high priest.”

    John 18:26 the NKJV omits the verb found in all texts. “One of the servants of the high priest, BEING (hoon) his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off...”

    John 19:10 the NKJV omits the second set of the verb “I HAVE”.

    JOHN 19:29 “they filled a spunge with VINEGAR and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.” This is a fulfilled Messianic prophesy found in Psalm 69:21 “in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink”. There even the NKJV has “vinegar” but here in John they have mistranslated it as SOUR WINE, thus obscuring this connection. Vinegar is the reading of the KJB, Tyndale, Geneva, ASV, RV, RSV, Darby and Young, but the NKJV and NASB read “sour wine” even though in the Pslam they still read vinegar.


    Acts 10:7 “And when the angel which spake UNTO CORNELIUS (tw kornelio) was departed, HE called two of his household servants...” This is the reading of the majority and TR, but N & B omit “unto Cornelius” and have “to him” (auto). The NKJV follows N & B and makes up its own text by saying: “when the angel who spoke TO HIM had departed, CORNELIUS called two of his household servants”. Here the NKJV tries to combine all of the divergent texts into one, and ends up creating a whole new reading not found in any single manuscript.

    Acts 14:3 “AND (kai) granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.”
    The word AND (kai) is found in the Textus Receptus, C, L, 104,323, 945,1175, 1739 and others. It is also in Tyndale, Geneva and Young’s. But the Alexandrian texts omit, and so do the NKJV, NASB, NIV.

    Acts 14:8 “BEING (huparkwn) a cripple from his mother’s womb.” The verb BEING is found in the Majority of all texts, the TR, Geneva, Tyndale, Young’s,
    and even in the NIV!, but again the NKJV joins the NASB, and the Alexandrian texts in omitting this word. In Acts 14:9 the NKJV joins the NIV in adding a word not found in any text at all. Instead of the KJB’s “The same heard Paul speak: WHO steadfastly beholding him...” the NKJV says: “This man heard Paul speaking. PAUL observing him intently...” The word PAUL is not in any text whatsoever.

    Acts 15:23 “And they wrote letters by them AFTER THIS MANNER” After this manner is found in the majority, C, D, Sinaiticus correction, and the TR, Tyndale and Geneva, Youngs, and even the Revised Version and ASV, but the NKJV unites with the NASB/NIV, Vaticanus and A and omits these words.

    Acts 17:14 “the brethren sent away Paul to go AS IS WERE (ws) to the sea.” is the reading of the majority and TR, Tyndale and Geneva. But the N & B have “TO the sea” (ews). And the NKJV unites with the NASB/NIV in reading so, thus departing from the KJB text.

    Acts 18:6 “And when they opposed THEMSELVES (autwn) and blasphemed...” That is, they put themselves in the way, to block the preaching of Paul. All the texts here are the same and even the Revised Version and the ASV read as does the KJB, but the NASB omits “themselves”, the NKJV says “they opposed HIM” which in not in any text, and the NIV says “the Jews opposed PAUL”, again, neither Jews nor Paul is in any text.

    Acts 19:9 “disputing daily in the school OF ONE (tinos) Tyrannus. This little word, tinos, is found in the majority and TR. but not in N or B. The NKJV unites with the NASB/NIV and omits it.

    Acts 19:39 “but if ye enquire any thing CONCERNING OTHER MATTERS, (peri ‘eteron) it shall be determined in a lowful assembly.” This is the reading of the majority, A,D and even Sinaticus and the Geneva Bible as well as the ASV, but it is not found in B. The NKJV omits this phrase and says: “But if you have any other inquiry to make, it shall be determined in the lawful assembly.”

    Acts 21:22 “What is it therefore?” (tí oun esti) is in all texts, but the NKJV omits the verb and has “What then?”


    Acts 21:23 “We have four men which have a vow ON THEM” On them is Eph ‘eauton. This is found in all texts, and in the RV, ASV, Tyndale, Young’s, but the NKJV unites with the NIV and NASB to omit them. The NKJV reads “We have four men who have taken a vow.” Also the verb is a present tense “have” (exontes) but the NKJV makes it a perfect tense.

    Acts 25:17 “When they were come HITHER...” (enthade) This is in all texts, even in the NASB and NIV, but the NKJV alone has omitted it. The NKJV says: “When they had come together..”

    Acts 27:14 “But not long after there arose AGAINST IT (kat’ autns) a tempestuous wind.” All texts read “against it”, referring to the island of Crete. But the NKJV omits this phrase and says: “ a tempestuous head wind arose”, the NASB paraphrases as “from the land” and the NIV as “swept down from the island”.

    Romans 7:6, “But now we are delivered from the law, THAT BEING DEAD, wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” This refers to the contextual analogy of the husband having died, and the wife can be married to another. The law died and was put to death by Christ who blotted out the “handwriting of ordinances that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.” Col.2:14. Here the TR of the KJB reads “apothanontOS” masculine singular. The law died. This is the reading of Green’s interlinear, the 21st Century KJB, Webster,s Bible of 1833, the Geneva Bible, the Modern Greek translation, Young’s translation, the Diodati, which preceded the KJB, and the Latin of Calvin. So it is a very ancient reading. The other Greek texts have a different reading. They say “we died” apothanontES, which is masculine plural. The truth that we died is also taught in other passages, but not in this one. The NKJV joins the NASB and NIV in saying, “We have been delivered from the law, HAVING DIED to what we were held by. . .”

    Romans 14:9 “For to this end Christ BOTH (kai) died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.”

    Here the word for “both” (kai) is found in the TR, and the majority texts. But the Westcott-Hort texts omit this word here and they also omit “and rose”. The NKJV has adopted a middle ground here and omits “both” while retaining “and rose”. The NKJV reads: “For to this end Christ died and rose (footnote) and lived again.” NKJV Footnote: NU text omits and rose.

    I Corinthians 6:4, is a statement or a command in the KJB, the Majority, the TR, Tyndale, Geneva, Darby, Young’s, Webster’s, and the Douay. But the Wescott/Hort text has this verse as a question, and the NKJV follows the NASB and Westcott/Hort. The KJB says, “If then ye have judgements of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.” In other words, the Christians were already guilty of judging others in their own congregation, as the context shows, so, he says, set the lowliest of the saints to judge these matters. Paul is using irony.

    The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge notes: “The apostle perhaps meant that the meanest persons in the church were competent to decide the causes which they brought before the heathen magistrates.” The People’s New Testament comments: “ An ironical way of hinting that their differences were so petty as to be worthy only of the poorest witted.”


    But the NKJV and NAS say, “do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?” While the NIV has “appoint as judges even men of little account in the church!”. An exclamation in the NIV.

    1 Corinthians 15:10, 24

    “but the grace of God WHICH WAS with me”. Here the word translated as “which was” is in the majority, A, Sinaiticus correction and P 46. It is found in the RV, ASV and NIV too. But Vaticanus omits it and so does the NASB. The NKJV wrongly puts these words in italics as though they were not in the Greek text underlying the KJB.

    In verse 24 “when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, EVEN (kai - in all texts) the Father”. This word is translated as EVEN by the RV, ASV, Geneva, Youngs and others. The NASB says God AND Father, but the NIV, NKJV both unite in omitting this word altogether. The NKJV says “unto God the Father”. A minor omission, but an omission nonetheless.

    2 Cor. 3:14, “for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; WHICH vail is done away in Christ.” The reading “which” (literally that which- 2 words- ‘o ti) is found in the TR of Green, Berry, and Trinitarian Bible Society. It is the reading of Tyndale, Geneva, Darby, Young, Spanish, the Revised Version, and even Douay. But the other Greek texts and Westcott /Hort have produced the reading found in the NKJV, NAS, and NIV. The NKJV says, “the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, BECAUSE the veil is taken away in Christ.” This is a little change from ‘o ti (2 words) to ‘oti (one word) and the NKJV follows the Westcott and Hort text here and not the TR.

    2 Corinthians 4:14, “Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also BY (dia) Jesus, and shall present us with you.” The word “by” is in the majority, and N correction, but B says “sun” (in Greek) or “with” instead of “by”. The NKJV reads “will also raise us up WITH Jesus, and will present us with you.” Is Jesus going to be raised up again? Or is Jesus the person by whom we shall be raised? Here the NKJV clearly does not follow the TR reading.

    2 Corinthians 9:4 “Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that WE SAY not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confidence of boasting.”

    WE SAY (legoomen) is the reading of the Majority, TR, and even Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. However the recent UBS text has “I SAY” (lego) based on P46.

    Agreeing with the KJB’s “we say” are the RV, ASV, Geneva, and Young’s. However to avoid the whole textual issue, the NKJV again joins the NIV, NASB, ESV and does not translate either reading, but instead paraphrases. The NKJV says: “...and find you unprepared, we (NOT TO MENTION YOU!) should be ashamed of this confident boasting.”

    The NKJV does not translate the subject of the verb, and does not follow the underlying KJB text.

    2 Corinthians 9:5 “...that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, WHEREOF YE HAD NOTICE BEFORE, that the same might be ready...”

    “Whereof ye had notice before” is the Majority reading as well as the Textus Receptus. It is proKATEEgelmenee, which is used four times in the N.T. and is always translated as “shewed before”, “foretold”, or “had notice before”. (See Acts 3:18, 24; and Acts 7:52)

    The versions that read exactly as the KJB’s “whereof ye had notice before” are Webster’s 1833 translation, the KJV 21, Third Millenium Bible, and those that have the same meaning are Lamsa’s translation of the Peshitta, Young’s and Darby’s, which say “before announced”.

    However the Alexandrian texts read “promised before” which is proEPEEgelmenee”. The NKJV follows the NIV, NASB Alexandrian texts again and say: “prepare your bountiful gift beforehand, WHICH YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY PROMISED, that it may be ready...”

    2 Corinthians 11:1 “Would to God ye could bear with me A LITTLE IN MY FOLLY: and indeed BEAR with me.”

    NKJV - “Oh, that you would bear with me IN A LITTLE FOLLY - and indeed YOU DO BEAR with me.”

    First of all, “would to God” is a fixed form of expression and is so rendered by the KJB, Tyndale, Geneva, Douay, Luther’s German, the KJV 21 and the Third Millenium Bible.

    Perhaps more importantly, the Majority text and the TR say “bear with me a little in my folly” but the Alexandrian texts add a little word (ti) which changes the meaning to “in a little folly”, and the NKJV now reads as do the NASB, NIV. In addition to this, the verb “bear with me” is taken as an imperative or command in the KJB, but the NKJV again goes along with the nasb, niv and makes it an indicative or present tense, rather than a command.

    In Galations 4:24 the 1979 NKJV said, “which things are an allegory”, which equals the KJB reading, while the 1982 says, “which things are symbolic”.


    Philippians 2:9, “God also hath highly exalted him, and given him A name which is above every name”. There is no definite article here in the majority or TR, but the Wescott/Hort text adds it. Bibles that read as the KJB with “a name” are Geneva, Tyndale, Young, and Darby, while those that follow N & B and the NKJV have “given him THE name”. I mention this only to point out that the NKJV does not always follow the Greek text of the KJB, but frequently follows the Wescott/Hort text.

    While here in Phillipians, notice that the NKJV is not the same from year to year. In just the first 10 chapters of Matthew, the changes from the 1979 NKJV, to the 1982 NKJV would fill up an entire page.

    In Phil. 2:6, the 1979 NKJV said Christ, “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped”, but in 1982 they changed it back to, “did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.”

    Colossians 3:17 “giving thanks to God AND (kai) the Father by him.” The little word AND is found in the majority and the TR, D, Old Latin, but the Alexandrian texts omit this word, and so do the NASB, NIV and the NKJV.

    In Hebrews 12:13, the 1979 said, “so that what is lame not be turned from the way, but rather be healed”, but the 1982 edition says: “so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed”. The 1982 NKJV has this word in italics, as though it is not in the text. But it is in the Greek and the KJB is correct and the NKJV is worse than it was before in 1979.

    Hebrews 3:16, “For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.” The Textus Receptus of the KJB is clearly a statement here. With the KJB are Tyndale, Geneva, Webster’s Bible, the 21st Century KJB, the Italian Diodati, the Spanish of 1602 and 1909, the Third Millenium Bible, Youngs translation and even the Catholic Douay of 1950.

    However, the NKJV follows the W/H text and reads as do the NASB and NIV. The NKJV says, “For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?” Not all who came out of Egypt rebelled. Caleb and Joshua did not rebel, but believed God and entered the promised land. This is the whole point of the passage. We are exhorted to believe God and enter into His rest, just as Caleb and Joshua did. The NKJV not only does not follow the Greek text of the KJB here, but creates a contradiction as well.

    Hebrews 13:6. “So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, AND I will not fear what man shall do unto me.” Here the little word “and” kai is in the TR. majority, A and P46. But N & B omit the word “and” and so does the NKJV. Also in the TR, and Tyndale, Geneva, Spanish and even Douay, this verse is a statement of fact. However Westcott-Hort have made it a question and so it stands in the NKJV, NIV and NASB. The NKJV says: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?” Do you see the differences?

    II Peter 2:15 “Balaam the son on BOSOR”. Bosor is the reading of the majority, P72, N correction,A, and C. It is the reading of Tyndale, Geneva, Darby, Young, Spanish and Douay. However, Vaticanus reads Beor instead of Bosor and the NKJV reads as the NIV and NASB with “Balaam the son of BEOR.”

    II John 7 “for many deceivers ARE ENTERED into the world” Here, the majority, other uncials, and the TR of the KJB read EISnlthon - “entered”, while N, B and A read EXnlthon, “went out”. One word means to enter into, and the other means to go out. The NKJV again departs from the KJB text and follows Wescott and Hort with its “many deceivers have GONE OUT into the world.”. Remember, the devil is in the details.

    Jude 3 “I gave all diligence to write unto you of THE common faith”. The TR and majority have THE common faith, but N & B say OUR common faith, and so does the NKJV, agreeing with the NIV, NASB.

    Jude 19 “These be they who separate THEMSELVES, sensual, having not the Spirit.” The TR, and C read apodiorizontes ‘EAUTOUS. The Wescott Hort text does not have “themselves”. Separate themselves is found in Geneva, Latin Vulgate, Darby, Young, 21st Cent. KJB, Webster’s Bible and Douay. The NKJV says: ”These are sensual persons, WHO CAUSE DIVISIONS, not having the Spirit” , thus reading as the NASB. The NIV says “these are men who divide YOU”. The “you” is not found in any text, and the whole meaning is changed. In the KJB they separate themselves from the others as a special class with superior knowledge, while the NIV says they divide you, the Christians. Not the same meaning.

    Revelation 6:11 “And white ROBES WERE given unto every one of them”. Here the TR reads plural “white robes were given”. Both the noun and verb are plural. The W/H text reads singular “ A WHITE ROBE WAS given”. The NKJV again joins the NASB/NIV and reads: “ And a white robe was given to each of them.”

    Rev. 16:16 “And HE gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.” All texts here read “he” referring to God. The NKJV reads: “ And THEY gathered them together to the place...” The NIV and NASB are also in error here, because even their Greek texts read suvngogen singular, not suvngogon plural. Tyndale, Douay, World English Bible, Webster’s, Green, Berry, Spanish and Darby agree with the KJB.

    Rev. 16:21 “and the plague THEREOF (‘autns) was exceeding great.” The word “thereof” or its, is in all texts, including the NASB, but the njkv has joined the NIV in omitting this word. The NKJV says: “that plague was exceeding great.”

    Rev. 18:9 “shall bewail HER, and lament for her.” Here the first “her” is ‘autnv. It is in the TR, and many other mss. But the njkv again has omitted it by following Sinaticus and the NASB/NIV. It says “will weep and lament for her.”

    Revelation 19:2 “and hath avenged the blood of his servants AT HER HAND”. Here, “at her hand” is ek tns xeipos ‘autns. Four words in Greek. They are found in all texts, and though they are in Tyndale, Geneva,the RV, the ASV, World English Bible, Webster’s, Spanish and Douay, the NASB and NIV have shortened it and changed the meaning by saying “has avenged the blood of his bond servants ON HER”, and the NKJV has “the blood of His servants shed BY HER” (omits hand).


    I have personally gone through the book of Revelation, comparing every word between the KJB and the NKJV. The NAS and NIV follow a very different text in Revelation, and hundreds words are missing from their texts. However, though the NKJV claims to follow the same text as the KJB in Revelation, I found that the NKJV adds some words like “some” in 2:17; “sick” in 2:22; “there” in 4:3; “more” in 9:12; “their” in 20:4 and “as” in 21:16. The NKJV also omits some 91 words. Eighty of these words are the little word “and” or kai in Greek. That’s eighty times omitted when in the Greek text that underlies the KJB just in one book! For example in 18:12,13 the word “and” is omitted 8 times in just two verses. The NKJV also omits “the same” houtos in 3:5; “nor” (mnte) twice in 7:1,3; “called” (legetai) in 8:11; “for her” ‘autnv in both 16:21 and 16:18 “so” (‘uto), as in “so great”; the word “for” (gar) in 21:25 “FOR there shall be no night there.”, and the verb “shall be” (estai) in 22:12. The KJB has, “to give every man according as his work SHALL BE”. The “shall be” is in the majority and TR, but the NKJV merely says, “to give every one according to his work.”

    I will keep adding to this list as I study more of the NKJV, but in light of Rev.22:18,19 where we are told not to add to, nor take away from the words of this book or God will take away his part out of the book of life, I would not recommend the NKJV to anyone. Stick to the King James Bible, and you will not go wrong.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:Nothing was omitted or changed. Just because you do not understand these verses, does not make it what you see it as.

    I see three as three and seven as seven, as I have since the first grade. One verse says three; the other says seven. Bottom line.


    The KJV is a faithful translation of God's words of truth. What you need to do, to understand the word of God, is seek understanding, wisdom and knowledge from the Lord in prayer and he will show you, either right away, or eventually.

    He showed me the difference in three and seven over fifty years ago.


    He will show you. To say these things are contradictions, and need to be corrected, is a lie. An outright lie, and changes the truth of God into a lie by trying to fix something that does not need fixing, but needs rather a desire to understand and make that effort to understand.

    I posted the verses exactly as they appear in every copy of the KJV I have. One says three, the other says seven. Which one is correct?
     
  6. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


    Will,

    --------------------------------------------------
    So to answer the question: "Were there seven years of famine or only three?", the correct answer is BOTH. There were seven years of famine altogether; four had already occurred and three more years were threatened as a further judgment.

    The King James Bible is right as always.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Thank you for explaining this. This also, is how I understood it. There are no contradictions in God's words, and with a little effort on our parts, and desire to know the truth, in prayer, God will show us the answer, and sort out for us what seems to be contradicting, which in fact is not.

    Thank you for all your hard work, and great love for God's truth, and may the Lord continue to bless you in all you do for him.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:I thought I saw it all until this last one. This really takes the cake. To compare the differences within the very scriptures themselves, that God breathed, and put there himself and preserved, to those versions that have caused differences has got to be the straw that broke the camels back, in excuses for the alterations of God's word.

    Every verse I quoted is from the 1769 KJV. If you can't answer the questions I asked, at least be a lady abot it and admit it. Spin will get you nowhere.


    You are confusing your lack of understanding God's word of truth and comparing this to the modern vesrions that have omitted from God's words? This is unbelievable!

    Please read the verses I posted and look'em up in any copy of the KJV you have, and then tell us which ones were posted from a MV. I suggest you take your Thorazine first.

    To give the translators the same authority as those men who were moved by the Holy Ghost to write what they were inspired to write, is not the same authority. Translators do not have this authority, to change or omitt from the text. If the versions of the Bibles differ, they are not the same. The Bible is Gods words of truth.

    You're not practicing what you're preaching. You've placed your full trust in the AV translators to have been perfect, infallible, inerrant in their work. The AV 1611 is quite different from its immediate predecessor, the Geneva Bible. The group of scholars who made the GB were every bit as qualified as the AV translators were, and they worked at the peril of their lives, unlike the AV translators. BY WHOSE AUTHORITY, besides that of King James, did the AV translators alter what was written in the Geneva Bible?


    Any Bible claims to be God's words of truth should read the same, not different, and cannot be compared to the differences God has preserved in his word of truth.

    Yes, it CAN. The differences WITHIN a version carry much more weight than those BETWEEN versions do. As a cop, I would ponder a witness statement about a traffic accident that says in one paragraph that the light was green facing east & west, and in the next paragraph says the light was RED facing east & west MUCH MORE than I would if one person wrote the light was green & another person wrote it was red.

    We wanna see YOUR explanations for the differences in the verses narrating the SAME EVENTS.


    God so chose to record his word in many places as though they were contradictions, when in fact they are not. Those who desire to understand what God has said, will understand that those things are not contradictions, but the unbelieving and faithless will not. God will sort out the understanding for one if they so desire to learn. That is why I think God has put them there. God's word is meant for the believer, not the skeptic, and not the unbeliever, but for those who are his and who trust him and his word, and his promises.

    OK, please explain to us how three and seven are the same.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:My error? I have not added "only" to my belief, but YOU AND OTHERS have added that to my belief. I never said that I did not believe the Tyndale, Geneva, and other Bibles based upon the received text were not the word of God. Never have I said this, but in fact have said the opposite. Those Bibles based upon the Received Text are valid translations of God's word.

    Every one of'em is different from the others. Which one is the "official" version?

    Here's an easily verifiable difference: The KJV, at Psalm 12:7 reads, "Thou shalt preserve *THEM*..." while the Geneva Bible reads, at the same verse, "thou shalt preserve *HIM*...". Which is correct, and why?

    You can find the 1599 Geneva Bible online at

    http://www.genevabible.org/
     
  9. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


    robycop,

    You need to start giving answers to why YOU approve of those versions that have altered God's word of truth. Until you can start giving me some answers, and scriptural support for your approval of these versions, I will not answer any more of your questions. You have resorted to attacking the the Holy Bible that God has so wonderfully and faithfully provided for us in the English language, in order to take away the attention to where attention is due - alterations/errors in the modern versions.

    I am sorry that you cannot understand what you claim to be contradictions in the KJV. Your true colors are showing. It has become evident that you despise the KJV. It has become evident that you believe the KJV has errors. So why then do you claim it is the word of God and reliable, if you do not really believe this? By your admissions, you should reject the KJB, and by the same, it seems as though you already have.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:If this is really true, that God is updating his word of truth to the language of the day, then how come his words of truth that have been believed for generations, are now being taken away and called "additions"? Does God allow his people to believe additions? Does God condone adding to his words of truth? Please give me scriptural support for your belief.

    Scripture? We have it! It's been posted many times before, but for YOUR benefit, here it is again:

    Over 700 years before Jesus was manifest in the flesh, Isaiah wrote some works that became Scripture & was recognized by JESUS as Scripture. Please read Isaiah 42: 7 & Isaiah 61:1-3, bookmarking them for quick reverence. Then, read Luke 4:16-21 and compare that which Jesus read aloud with those verses in Isaiah.

    Next, read & bookmark Isaiah 53:7-8, then, read Acts 8:27-35 & compare with what's written in Isaiah.

    There are quite a few examples of NT people quoting OT Scriptures differently from how they're written in our versions of the OT, but these two examples should do, especially since one of them is from JESUS HIMSELF.

    Now, will you provide us with some Scripture in support of KJVOism?

    And you say you're not KJVO, but you keep chanting, "God has given me His word in the KJV." Aside from that little contrast, what other version(s) do you recommend?
     
  11. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


    --------------------------------------------------
    Over 700 years before Jesus was manifest in the flesh, Isaiah wrote some works that became Scripture & was recognized by JESUS as Scripture. Please read Isaiah 42: 7 & Isaiah 61:1-3, bookmarking them for quick reverence. Then, read Luke 4:16-21 and compare that which Jesus read aloud with those verses in Isaiah.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Do translators have the same authority as our Lord Jesus Christ or the apostles? Please give me scriptural support for your belief.


    You talk about others spinning to avoid the question, when in fact YOU are the one quilty of such.

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  12. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


    The above post of "quilty" was in error to which I now correct to "guilty".


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:There is a vast difference between standing for the pure words of God and against those things that have taken God's words away, while claiming they are additions, to that of limiting God.

    That's exactly what Onlyism is, an attempt by the devil to limit God and His word, to cast doubt upon some versions of God's word that are more easily read by today's people than older versions are.


    My Bible is either the very words of God, or I am guilty of condoning that which would add to his words, and therefore I have then become a partaker of those evil deeds. You believe that they were added to God's words, but yet you still approve of them. God is not the author of confusion, and I am standing in this faith, and the faith of the promises that he made concerning his words of truth.

    You are totally clueless as to why I posted verses from the KJV that apparently contradict, aren't you?


    You are displaying a gnostic attitude about God's word of truth, which are eternal, and to which will not pass away, that we are limiting God, "Don't put God in a box" concerning his very words. However, God has told us in his word of truth all about his words, and this is what I stand by, knowing that God does not change, and is the same today, as he was yesturday and will be tomorrow. He does not change, and therefore neither does his words of truth.

    Then please explain why there are no two English BVs alike, whether they were translated from the same sources or not. You mentioned Tyndale's Bible as being valid since it was made from the Received Text.

    First, here's John 3:16 as it's written in the AV 1611:" "For God so loued the world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life."

    From the 1534 Tyndale's: "For God so loveth the worlde, that he hath geven his only sonne, that none that beleve in him, shuld perisshe: but shuld have everlastinge lyfe."

    The evidence speaks for itself. Feel free to check the accuracy of my posting of these verses.

    And plainly, you don't know what "gnostic" means.


    God has placed this limit upon his own words and shared this with all of us so that we know. It is not I who is limiting God in this area, but the truth of God's word and what he has said concerning them that does. I just believe what he has said and obey to the best of my ability.

    Please prove to us that God cannot present/provide His very own word AS HE CHOOSES.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:I do not understand what you mean by re-inspiration, as I do not believe the KJV translators were inspired as the apostles were inspired. I believe that God guided the translation. I do not look at the KJV as man's work, but the work of God through fallible men, to provide an accurate translation of His words of truth to English speaking people, and that the fruits of this translation continue to this very day.

    Can you PROVE that God did NOT guide any other English translators?


    As I agree to a point that the theology of the translators does not affect the translation, as I believe that God has guided it, and can guide an accurate translation of his word of truth through fallible men, I can see affects of Westcott and Horts beliefs revealed in the modern versions.

    So you believe a doctrine started by a man who believed in salvation by works, who placed the writings of Ellen G. White, whom he personally knew, on a plane almost equal to Scripture, believed vegetarianism was Scriptural, & who wrote a book replete with errors, such as the great debate between Arminius(born 1560) and John Calvin(died 1564)(Who moderated? the Rug Rats?)?




    I don't think the same can be said of the KJV. I see that the Alexandrian family of texts agree with Westcott and Horts beliefs. The end result is the weakening of the doctrines of our faith and of Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the fruit of thier labors. One Bible gives the strong and sure testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ, the other weakens it.

    The AV translators were all Neo-Catholics, not friendly at all with Baptists. Just read the history of the British Court of High Commission and the Star Chamber.

    Skan has already reminded you that the KJV departs from the RT & follows the Alex mss more than once. Do you discount those parts of the KJV?

    Since this thread is about Rick Norris' book, here's a short article by him. Let's see you prove him wrong.

    http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/rick/bancroft.html
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No error in the KJV!!!! No mistakes!!! </font>[/QUOTE]OK, which one is RIGHT?
     
  16. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    TR reads "estw de o logov umwn nai nai ou ou to de perisson toutwn ek tou ponhrou estin."

    A word for word translation reads, "let be but the word of your yes yes no no the and excess of these out of the evil one is."

    Put the words in the order normally found in English and the TR reads "But let your word be yes, yes, no, no. For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

    Sorry, but the NKJV does not depart from the TR. The word "communication" does not appear in the Greek, and both "nai nai" and "ou ou" have "umwn" as their antecedent, so "your" is a correct modifier for both.

    Once again you have proven two things. The first is that you can't read Greek, and the second is that the NKJV follows the TR.
    The Greek word is prosekunei, and means "to kiss the hand" "to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence" "kneeling or prostration to do homage." The Critical text reads exactly as does the TR, "prosekunei."

    Once again all you have proven is that the NKJV follows the TR and that you know absolutely nothing about Koine Greek.
    Sorry, but once again you are wrong. The TR Greek reads "outwv kai o pathr mou o epouraniov poihsei umin ean mh afhte ekastov tw adelfw autou apo twn kardiwn umwn ta paraptwmata autwn." Word for word translation, "unless you forgive each one the brother of him from the hearts of you the offenses of them." The last word which I translated "of them" is "autwn" which refers back to the "autou" modifying "adelfw." The "them" is the plural of "his" and, if we had such a word in English it would read "hes" but since we don't, "him" fits perfectly well. Once again you have proven the NKJV does not depart from the TR. In fact the Critical text lacks the phrase "ta paraptwmata autwn" so, if the NKJV had followed the Critical text the sentence would have ended with "your hearts." As the verse does not end that way proves the NKJV followed the TR.
    The TR Greek reads, "kai exelyontev oi douloi ekeinoi eiv tav odouv sunhgagon pantav osouv euron ponhrouv te kai agayouv kai eplhsyh o gamov anakeimenwn." The last clause reads "and was filled the wedding with recliners." Now ask yourself, was the wedding filled or was the place were the wedding was being held filled? Only an idiot would assume all the people who showed up became part of the wedding party!

    Once again you have proven the NKJV does not depart from the TR. If you will read the UBS Greek NT you will note is says "gamos" here also. This is an issue of translation not of a variant in the Greek text for the Critical text does not follow the variant, it follows the TR.

    I have deleted the rest of your ridiculously long cut and paste post. Your "much speaking" does not impress me. If you cannot limit your posts to just a few paragraphs I will ignore them.

    So far you are 0 or 3. The rest of your tirade is no more accurate than the first three. If you would like to post them one at a time I will expose your fallacies. However, the better course of action for you would be to go find a good college and take some Greek classes. Doing so will go a long way in clearing up most of your confusion regarding the translation of the Greek TR into English.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Askjo:I already learned the facts about these names. I checked them up. They are true. Do you doubt me? If so, the evidences that I found the truth, are your simple denials.

    But as is usual for a KJVO, when asked for hard facts, you fail to show where those people were wrong. Not believing the stupid KJVO myth certainly isn't wrong.
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Originally posted by michelle:
    robycop,

    This has already been answered, but you choose to ignore it, and scoff at it. Now it is your turn to answer. YOu need to start answering questions, as you are the one standing for those things that have altered the word of God.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle


    Askj0:Robcop, Michelle is correct.

    No, she isn't, and neither are YOU.

    While I don't question her(nor your) faith in CHRIST, I certainly question her(and your) faith in the KJVO myth. I have faith that God can do ANYTHING, & that there are things God WILL NOT do-not because He CAN'T do them, but because He has CHOSEN NOT to do them.

    There are NO scriptural limitations from God as to how He may choose to present/provide His word to us. Thus, the KJVO seeks to LIMIT GOD by making ONLY ONE VERSION of His word in English the "official" version to the exclusion of all others. There's not the slightest peep of evidence to support this notion. While God's word to us has been complete for some 2000 years, this KJVO notion has come up within only the last 70 years. It's based solely upon guesswork, opinion, and imagination, not supported either by Scripture or history. It amazes me that any Baptist of normal intelligence can believe such an obviously-false fishing story. The man-made origin of the KJVO myth has been repeatedly posted, without the slightest dissent by the KJVOs. When we ask the KJVO for Scriptural support for his myth, he either clams up or responds with a boatload of spin, hoping we'll forget that his myth has NO Scriptural support.

    Sorry, Askjo, you're just as clueless about the KJVO myth as any other KJVO is.
     
  19. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


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    That's exactly what Onlyism is, an attempt by the devil to limit God and His word, to cast doubt upon some versions of God's word that are more easily read by today's people than older versions are.

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    Actually robycop, you and others are the ones who are being "duped" by the devil. The modern versions now read as one would a newspaper, fixing what the translators "thought" to be contradictions, which were/are not, and making God out to be a liar. The modern versions have done the damage to those who now doubt, and are now made to become their own judge as to what God has said, and what he has not said. Deception always comes dressed up in pretty clothes, and this is the deception: it is easier to read and understand, while all the while many things are omitted and changing the meanings of the contexts, in a very subtle but pleasant way. This is the true deception, that you all have been duped by. Rat poison is 98% natural and edible, whereby the 2% poison is fatal. Just this small amount is fatal, but to the unsuspecting rat, it has come in a very pleasant package covering up that fatal 2%. Go ahead, and continue using and approving of the rat poison versions.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  20. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!


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    Sorry, but once again you are wrong. The TR Greek reads "outwv kai o pathr mou o epouraniov poihsei umin ean mh afhte ekastov tw adelfw autou apo twn kardiwn umwn ta paraptwmata autwn." Word for word translation, "unless you forgive each one the brother of him from the hearts of you the offenses of them." The last word which I translated "of them" is "autwn" which refers back to the "autou" modifying "adelfw." The "them" is the plural of "his" and, if we had such a word in English it would read "hes" but since we don't, "him" fits perfectly well. Once again you have proven the NKJV does not depart from the TR. In fact the Critical text lacks the phrase "ta paraptwmata autwn" so, if the NKJV had followed the Critical text the sentence would have ended with "your hearts." As the verse does not end that way proves the NKJV followed the TR.
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    Skanw,

    I get the impression from you, that your veiw of your scholarly abilities, exceeds that of the KJV translators. Is this true? How do you know better than those who were not only fluent in these languages (among many others), and the best scholars of those days, and to whom were much closer to the languages and cultures of that day than you, a modern day man, far removed from that time, can now tell us you know better? Is it his, or is it theirs? I trust the translation that has been accepted, believed, taught, lived, and preached for generations of christians to which evidences God's preserved word of truth for the english speaking people, over those modern day scholars of today that claim it is something else. "His" and "theirs" give two different meanings, and these two words have not changed meaning. The KJV translators could have translated this word as "his" having also the knowledge of the language as you do, but chose instead to use the word "their". I trust their understanding of Greek, far more than yours. No offense.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
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