A question about Calvinisum

I can say this. God is able to save all of mankind. I also know that God does not save all mankind. Who God will save I do not know. I do not think you know..do you? I do not worry as you seem to think I should, for worry helps nothing. I do care. I do want to shre the gospel. I do like to see people saved. Calvinist are very big on missions and not building big churches. I do pray, and I'm sure you do as well.

If we lined up every child that know not of God, I would preach to each one the same message. I would tell them sin has place man in a condemned state before a holy God. I would tell them they are sinners in need of Christ. I would tell them that we all are sinners, but Christ came to save sinners. I would tell them Christ blood washed away sins on the cross. I would ask them to repent and follow Christ and call Christ their Lord. I would tell them salvation is not my works, but only buy Gods grace. I would tell them to trust in God and believe He is the only one that can save them from their sins. Last I would pray for them that God will change their heart and that they will believe.

Will they be saved? That is in the hands of God. I can say salvation is more then just possible. I can say it will indeed happen, if they will trust in God.

There are a few other things I could add to this. But tell me, what major thing could you do, that I have not done to these?

 

Hanna,

I believe there is no hope for exactly the same people you do: those who rebelliously never choose to believe. (In addition, I believe there is no hope for those who never hear the gospel. I'm not sure where you stand on that issue.)

 

I believe Gods sovereignty and the freewill of Man are both clearly taught in Scripture.


Election:

John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."


John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.


Freewill:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!



If Scripture is without error and Scripture teaches both, then both must be true, correct?


After sin was introduced, and God entered the garden looking for Adam, what did Adam do?

Genesis 3:10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

He hid, and Man has been hiding from God ever since.

Revelation 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

We will not come to God on our own, even though we have the freewill to do so. Rather we run from God and the acknowledgement of our sins.

God desires that all of us would come to him, but none of us will come on our own. So God does not choose who will go to hell, we choose hell ourselves. The problem is without God calling us and convicting us of our sins, we will continue in them, thus rejecting God and deserving hell.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

The existence of the World and all that is in it is clear evidence of God, yet we will not come to him without him initiating the call by placing conviction and guilt on our hearts. Therefore God Chooses some of us, for his own Divine reasons and through no merit of our own, to bring to him.


Matthew 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."


Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You, That he may dwell in Your courts. We shall be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Of Your holy temple.


This is the reason that Man is responsible if he goes to hell, but God deserves all the credit for salvation.

 

John 12:

"32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

Hi Hanna;

Yes.
The Bible is the work of God for our benefit. Paul said;
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Since God is responsible for the word of God and it's purpose. Then who ever first preaches the word to us has the Spirit working in them to work on us. The Holy Spirit being the third person in the God head. Our faith is then the product of the work of God not our own.
Isaiah said our righteousness is filthy rags.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If our righteousness is filthy rags then we can't be saved by anything we do because it simply isn't good enough.
Paul said;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We are saved through faith but we are not saved by our own faith but the faith of Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are first justified by the faith of Jesus Christ when we put on the righteousness of Christ.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
We have sinned. with out His righteousness we are hopeless.
This righteousness is what God can see when we are judged. If He could see our's we would be thrown out. We wear it like the clothing. Christ said in a parable in Matt 22;
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

That wedding garment is the righteousness of Christ. It's His righteous faith that saves us. Thus faith and hearing and our convincing is all the work of God and not our own.
MB

 

Titus: 2

"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

"15": These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.



Ephesians, chapter 1

"13": In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

Whether the alternatives were good or bad for you was not the point of the illustration. The point of the illustration was just to show that it is possible to have an inability that comes from distaste rather than any funtional problem with one's "chooser". That's the sort of inability we're talking about when we speak of inability to believe. There is absolutely nothing keeping the natural human being from believing except their distaste for God, their rebellion against God, their hostility to him. They could believe if they wanted to, but they don't want to. To them, God seems as appetizing as lutefisk, and so they choose to remain in their sin.

That's why we say inability is moral inability and not functional inability.

 

But, the ones who do believe had their hearts changed by God so they would believe, is that right? I don't think you are telling the whole story. I think Cal do that a lot. Of Course you believe there is no hope for the same as Hana believes but the reason the ones she believes has not hope is because they could believe because they have a choice. The ones you believe have no hope is because they didn't believe also but they couldn't believe because God didn't change their heart so they could believe, according to Calvinism. Big difference.
We all agree the people going to Heaven are the same, its how they got saved is where we differ.

 

Indeed . This is but part of the passage. Lets look at the next few verses as the writer goes into detail.

The order again...
Gods love appeared when Mercy was given to us in that we were regenerated by the Holy Spirit, which He( Holy Spirit) gave mercy abundantly, in that we could justified by His grace.

ASV puts it this way....

Do you now see where what you posted was only part of the message, and that this could be misleading?



In Christ,,James

 

Yes, He offers it to all, and gives it to all who will receive it. Amen!

We are saved by grace through faith, not saved by faith through grace. Faith is not a work, the Bible makes that very clear.

Salvation by grace through faith is a gift from God.

 

Again....this is misleading.

The passage in full is talking about blessings we have in Christ.

Notice the list starts with election. Now this is the full picture, and not part as you posted.

 

The atonement is limited by both sides, yet there is more fight over the atonement and election then anything.

 

I do not disagree with this brother. You just know that I as a Calvinist also place in there election.

ADDED LATER....oops...I reread and now add this...

I see, of course the giving of saving grace to the elect. The offer of salvation is extended to all.

 

Explain who the "we" and the "ye" are. In the first 12 verses Paul is talking about "we" and "us" and then in verse 13 he says "in whom ye also trusted...".

 

1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints that are at Ephesus,

 

Well, I am sure you agree. But, do you really (as a Calvinist) believe God offers it to all? Would it be honest of me to offer you $1,000,000 dollars if I didn't have it, but I knew you would not take it anyway? It would only be honest if I actually had it. If it was a bonafide offer that I provided for. Even if I knew you would not accept it, I would not offer it unless I meant it.

 

Yes, but that does not explain the " ye also..." in verse 13, does it?