Under Grace or Under Law?...Round 3

So, those who were committing abominable acts just before death were not walking in the Spirit. They were the servant to sin. They broke the commandments and did not truly know Christ.

 

The problem is adding to Scripture and reading old English definitions and definitions derived from some messed up Roman Catholic and other medieval theology, as well as Calvinistic and Arminian teachings, back into the Biblical languages.

No, what I did "amen" is that they were saved by grace through faith, and that it was not conditioned on some supposed standard that was or was not met, upon believing, or some condition that had to be met before one could believe, or even worse, one that had to continue to be met to keep that 'faith' effective, as some here keep positing.

I, for the tenth time, at least, was not under "it" before Christ, for I was a Gentile, not a Jew.

The Mosaic Law was given to the Jews, never to the Gentiles, assuming that Rom. 2:14 is found in your Bible. Pilate recognized this, when he spoke to the Jews of "your law", Gallio did the same, and Jesus and Paul made the same observation and recognition, referring to "your (Israel's) law". (Jn. 8:17; 10:34; 18:31; Acts 18:15; Rom. 2:17, 27; 4:14) And Scripture simply does not say that "the only way the righteousness of the Law can be fulfilled is to Keep them", either.

In fact, what it does say is that the 'righteousness' of the Law is fulfilled by walking according to the Spirit. In fact I'll give that quote, as well-

And in fact one can only find the phrase "keep the law" or similar, six times in the NT. And here they are, just 'cause I'm so helpful.

1. Uh- do you see anything here about this being a command? In fact, the church council at Jerusalem expressly declared that "we gave no such command", as to keep the law.

This is what Scripture says on this subject, at least in the NT. Peter asked why did the Judaizers attempt to tempt God and put a yoke on the church that Israel was not able to bear for 1600 years. (Acts 15:10) I ask that same same question 1950 years later. "Why indeed?" I fail to see a problem with "getting it'.

Ed

 

Read the whole chapter. I believe the subjects is "false prophets", not Christian liberty.

Ed

 

:BangHead: :BangHead:

Don't know why I am getting a headache! Anyone got any suggestions?

Ed

 

Good post, Mike.

Ed

 

My headache is easing. Wonder why? Good post, DHK. You are absolutely correct, here.

Ed

 

:BangHead: :BangHead:

I think my headache is coming back!

Ed

 

We are supposed to be Claudia but as in all churches we too have weaken our stance on the wearing apparrel even though we still have orders for women not to wear pants or both men and women are forbidden to wear shorts outside of their homes.

 

It don't make no sense to anyone. When Jesus talked about the Law, it was the Ten Commandments unless He purposely mentioned something for the Jews to do that were still under the Mosaic Law.

Give me a scripture where He spoke of the Commandments and it was indeed the Mosaic law of the washing of the pots and pans. The famous 600 +.

I am not willing to put myself under the sacrificial Law, the Circumcism Law or all of the Mosaic Law. The Commandments came right from God Himself and was delivered by Moses and that is what He is saying that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until Heaven and Earth pass. My goodness, When He died He fulfilled the sacrificial Law. He took the circumcismal Law out of the flesh and put it in the heart. Wonder why He had to do this if He fulfilled all the Law when He came. The Commandent Law was carried across the river Jordan on dry land in the ark into the promised land and when Jesus came preaching that is what He preach was "thou knowest the Commandments". yikes!!!

 

He spoke of tithing of mint and cumin leaves; is that close enough to "the famous 600 +"? How about mercy and compassion? Your description and division is still completely arbitrary, and not delineated by Scripture. How about "Defraud not?"

In fact, In counted a least 90 times at a quick scanning of Exodus through Deuteronomy where it is said "And God spoke", or "The LORD spoke", or words to that effect, besides the Ten commandments. I submit they came "right from God Himself", as well. Either that or Moses or God lied, and I'm not willing to get near that one, unlike a lot of liberal theologians.

Ed

 

You are the one who said it is not sin. How could it be sin if the Commandments are not in effect? Paul said, I would not even known what sin was except the Commandments said; "thou shalt not commit adultery".

 

ED,

could you please explain what you mean? just eleborate on what you said and why you are shaking your head sadly?

 

Bob,

thats interesting that Mike says they have Accountability groups, isnt it? :laugh:

 

What you are saying is to remove all the Law. There would be no sin if you remove the Ten Commanments. They were added so sin would appear sin.
You remove all the civil Law and watch this world go crazyier that it already is. Same is true with the Commandments so if your churches are always dealing with adultery, etc. Well, you told them it was ok, so what did you expect them to do.

 

If I didnt currently have my pussycat named Moses in my lap, I'd type out a thing for you showing that the laws moses wrote were put in the side of the Ark signifying their temporary nature, while the law of God (10 commandments) were put INSIDE the ark signifying their permanent nature.

 

D28, Ed, DHK and others.

Why is adultery, stealing, killing, coveting, worshipping idols etc, sin? Why do you say the church need to punish the adulterer for sin. How do you know it is sin?

 

Luk 18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Which one was justified the one who paid the tithes or the other one who said Lord forgive me a sinner?


2. Mercy and Compassion (Love thy neighbor), how is that one of the 600 +?


3. Defraud not. (LOve thy neighbor)
Lev 19:13¶Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob [him]: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.


You will have to do better than that Ed.

Jhn 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

You take this as the Commandments don't you? Well its talking about Circumcism in this case. The Commandments were given by God Himself. The Bible plainly teaches us what happened to the Law of Circumcism, Law of Sacrifice. Its the Law of the Commandments we are concerned about.

 

Brother Bob,

I am beginning to see the picture here...

God wrote the law on the hearts of the Christian so the Christian would be able to make a mockery of it and say 'I can steal, kill, lie, commit adultery, worship idols, etc., because I made a profession of faith in Christ and therefore I do not have to heed to the Law. I know it was handed down to Moses by God, and that God said His Word is forever settled in heaven. But God doesn't really want me to follow that old list.

Ya know Bob, someone said in this thread earlier that the law was for the Jews and not for the Gentiles. I know someone who is of Gentile descent and married to a Jewish woman. Reckon she has to continue in the law but he doesn't?

 

Gen 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

They fail to see the difference is all I can think of.