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Featured Acts 13:48

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by RipponRedeaux, Jul 14, 2023.

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  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Still don't believe the bible I see.
     
    #41 Silverhair, Jul 16, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2023
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  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So if your not then why do you believe that error they put out?
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Is this the bible ?
    2 Cor 4:3-4

    3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
     
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  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    2Co 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
    2Co 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

    Yes it is the bible but you interpret it to fit your theology. You are reading into the text what you want to find. So it is not the bible you believe but yourself.

    Why is the gospel veiled? Because those that do not believe have been blinded but even then they could be saved if they would just come to believe the gospel message. These verses say nothing about God having to save them before they can believe.
    Your interpretation is flawed.
     
  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    All those that are justified, God vouchsafed, in and for the sake of his only Son Jesus christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption, by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of children of God, have his name put upon them, receive the spirit of adoption, have access to the throne of grace with boldness, are enabled to cry Abba, Father, are pitied, protected, provided for, and chastened by him as by a Father, yet never cast off, but sealed to the day of redemption, and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation.
    [Taken from Chapter 12 of The Baptist Confession Of Faith Of 1689]
     
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  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So the bible teaches that them that are lost, the Gospel is hid from them. That means knowledge of the Gospel is withheld from them, cant believe something you dont know !
     
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  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    But you overlook the rest of the verse. The knowledge is veiled by Satan but that does not stop them from responding to the knowledge. That is why it says "lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them"

    What is the desire of God BF?
    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    You make God work against Himself and that is not biblical. Your view is not biblical although it does fit with your philosophy.
     
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF here is a verse that may help you understand
    2Co 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
    2Co 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

    Act 28:27 FOR THE HEARTS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE GROWN DULL. THEIR EARS ARE HARD OF HEARING, AND THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED, LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, LEST THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS AND TURN, SO THAT I SHOULD HEAL THEM." '

    While the people have become resistant to the gospel it does not say they can not respond to it. It actually indicates that it is possible.
    This the same situation that we see in 2Co 4:3-4 they are blinded now but this does not stop them from latter responding to the gospel. You have to read into the text that they can never know but the text does not support your view but rather just the opposite.

    2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
     
  9. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. (Ro. 9:15)

    God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden. (Ro. 9:18)
     
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  10. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing --- to the latter an odor from death to death, but to the former a fragrance from life to life. (2 Cor. 2:15,16)
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Gospel is hid to them that are lost, so they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

    But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Gospel is hid to them that are lost, they cant believe something that is hid from them.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you keep repeating the same error as if that will make it right. That may work in your mind but it does not in the real world.
     
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I will have mercy future tense, active voice, indicative mood. Though the action is future, it will certainly take place. The indicative "…confirms the reality of the action from the viewpoint of the speaker"

    I have mercy present tense, active voice, subjunctive mood. The action may take place if the conditions are met.

    I will have compassion future tense, active voice, indicative mood.

    I have compassion present tense, active voice, subjunctive mood

    The subjunctive mood shows that the action is not taking place, but is potential, and will take place if certain conditions are met. Thus, God will certainly exercise His mercy and compassion but it will be limited to the ones who fulfill His conditions.


    Whom He wills Whether it is an act of mercy or hardening it is a judicial act. Those that trust in Christ He shows mercy those that choose to reject Him God hardens through their continued rejection.
     
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    This verse gives you clarity as to what the "sweet aroma" and "odor from death to death" is. It is the knowledge of who Christ Jesus is through the gospel message.
    2Co 2:14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place.
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So 2 Cor 4:3-4 is error to you,

    3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    The Gospel Paul and the Apostles preached its hid to them that are Lost, and consequently they believe not.
     
  17. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    There are no maybes, possibilities, potentials with God. "If certain conditions are met" is your escape route trying to avoid clear Scripture. The Scripture stands despite the manipulations of puny people, i.e. "O Man."
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    silverhair

    Thats false, Gods will fulfills the condition, it depends on whether or not He has purposed to have compassion/mercy on one.

    And God has already stated His determinate purpose in the first part of the verse Rom 9:15

    For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    Thats in the indicative which means:

    Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

    You are attempting to make this action dependent upon the dead sinner.
     
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you keep following your philosophy rather than the bible. It is not the biblical truth you seek but rather conformation of your extra biblical view.
    Your continued repetition of your error will not make it correct.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I understand that you need to follow your deterministic philosophy but when you deny clear scripture so you can hold to it then you should realize that your philosophy is in error.

    Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
    Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

    Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

    Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    You're following a deterministic view that has come out of pagan philosophy. Augustine brought it into the church and Calvin carried it forward to this present day. You are trusting in a man-made theology rather than the word of God.
     
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