All equal in heaven?

Yep. Don't forget what we're told in Numbers 18:17:

 

StandingfirminChrist

If we are talking about the millenium, there will be no discontentment for the resurrected saints being made perfect. But the unsaved born during the millenium will be. How else will Satan be loosed after the 1000 years and deceive the nations.

 

Gospelexplained, you are badly mistaken.
The Judgement very cleary happens at the end of the millenium.

Refer Rev. 20

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Here you see the thousand years are over and people being cast out of the Kingdom.

MR

 

Mountainrun you make it sound like I deny the Great White Throne judgement is at the end of the millenium. Can you explain what happens at Jesus' second coming? What does Jesus do with the living unsaved that make it through the tribulation?

For the living people on earth (Jesus rewards His own with allowing (rewarding) them to inherit/enter the Kingdom of God/Millenial reign of Christ. (These will have children, some of which trust in Christ, some of which don't.)

What happens to the living unsaved at the end of the tribulation?

Jesus will judge the earth in righteousness right from the start of the second advent. He will not allow the living unsaved to inherit His kingdom. Why do you limit His reign of Judgement on the earth to only the end of the millenium?

Jesus will judge in righteousness:
1)At the second advent - Jesus will cut off the living unsaved prior to giving the inheritance of the millenial Kingdom.
Jhn 3:3 ...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2)During the millenium - Jesus will cut off the rebellious unsaved in the millenium. (born during the millenium)
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

3)Jesus will cut off the living unsaved at the end of the millenial Kingdom/prior to the eternal state. Everyone entering the eternal state will be like Jesus in a resurrection body - no more children to be born that could grow up rejecting Jesus.

Mountainrun I believe you have failed to discern between the two distinct separations of the saved from the unsaved. First at Christ's second coming, to usher in the Kingdom of God on earth. Second to usher in the eternal state.

 

Gospelexplained..
"Mountainrun you make it sound like I deny the Great White Throne judgement is at the end of the millenium."

Apologies, I misread your post.

Ge..."What does Jesus do with the living unsaved that make it through the tribulation?"

Jesus..."Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of man will be seen in heaven: and then all the nations of the earth will have sorrow, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a great sound of a horn, and they will get his saints together from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now take an example from the fig-tree: when her branch has become soft and puts out its leaves, you are certain that the summer is near;
Mat 24:33 Even so, when you see all these things, you may be certain that he is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, This generation will not come to an end till all these things are complete.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth will come to an end, but my words will not come to an end.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour no one has knowledge, not even the angels in heaven, or the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man."

Ge..."Why do you limit His reign of Judgement on the earth to only the end of the millenium?"

MR...Because the Bible does not place a judgement at His coming. The unsaved are removed, not judged. Those removed will be judged later with the rest of the damned.

Ge..."Mountainrun I believe you have failed to discern between the two distinct separations of the saved from the unsaved."

MR...No, I have not. I simply refuse to acknowledge the removal of the unsaved at the end of the tribulation as a judgement since there is nothing in the Bible to support it. It is simply your opinion, which you are entitled to.

There is, however, overwhelming scripture for the judgement at the end of the millenium so we can both agree on this point.

MR

 

The day of the Lord is not a day of judgement?
I am open to hearing what you call it then, a "discernment" in order to separate the sheep from the goats? As in the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.- your quote - I think God judged the earth then as well. Are you going to claim that there is nothing in the Bible to support that the flood was a judgement of God?

I think what we are disagreeing with is that it is the unsaved cast out (my position) that gnash their teeth, as opposed to what you see as a saved wicked evil servant banished and gnashing their teeth in loss of reward in the millenium.

My position is that the individuals cast out are the unsaved; your position is that the casting out is of the "saved" wicked servant(s) into some kind of millenial exile.

You believe I have inserted an additional judgement. Perhaps you have created a place of judgement that does not exist. Judgement FOR THE SINS of the saints was taken on the CROSS. WE DO NOT BEAR ANY OF OUR SINS, EVEN THE SIN OF UNFAITHFUL SERVICE - JESUS BORE. What saved individuals lose is REWARDS, and ONLY REWARDS.
Jesus bore ALL our sins. You make it as though the unfaithful servant is being judged and PUNISHED for his sin. He is NOT judged and PUNISHED for sin, a servant is judged to ascertain reward or lack thereof. Jesus will not impose punishment on his people as your view suggests. Jesus seeks for a reason to give us recognition for faithfulness. We may feel a sense of shame, or even suffer loss (of wood,hay,stubble) by not being rewarded for the works committed in the flesh. But a saved individual BEING PUNISHED BY CHRIST for their sin of unfaithfulness (by being placed into some kind of exile)is as foreign to true Christianity as you can get.

 

Let's face it, do we really live holy lives as holy as Paul the apostle or myriads of the early saints of the church. Not hardly, with the wordily influence in our society from TV, music to movies. So even though we trust in the Lord in our life, when we die someday, our piety will never measure up to so many pious saints who have died before us. So yes, there has to be a "reward" system in heaven.Many will receive higher authority and stuff in heaven than you or I.

It's amazing that any of us are allowed into heaven ,considering how many times we sin either in thought, word or deed. One is truly saved BY GRACE and rewarded according to one's pious works. But some will be saved as by fire or by the skin of their teeth.

I will be grateful just to be allowed into heaven and be in a world where there is REAL love and peace. Where there is no hate, death, sickness and struggle. That ALONE will make me happy. I don't care about crowns, mansions or ruling over anybody. I just want to BE THERE. Away from this world of sin and sorrow. To see all those who died before me. The family members I loved so much and to be reunited with them. Oh what a day that will be. Thank you Lord Jesus. Thank you, for dying for me.Amen.

 

Scripture states in Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

If we are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ what more can there be?

 

There will be rewards for our faithfulness and godly deeds.

 

I'm not sure where to start, explained.
You seem to have misunderstood almost everything I said and went to a great deal of effort to put forth straw man arguments that I have not made.

Please let me state my own opinions.

The judgement at the end of the millenium is NOT for believers.
Those cast out are cast into hell.
This is my contention from the beginning and you have misunderstood.

explained...

"I think what we are disagreeing with is that it is the unsaved cast out (my position) that gnash their teeth, as opposed to what you see as a saved wicked evil servant banished and gnashing their teeth in loss of reward in the millenium."

No, this is NOT what I see.
The removal of the unsaved occurs prior to the millenium, not saved people. They will await their judgement before Christ after 1000 years.

At this time they will be cast into hell.

I don't mind people debating fairly, but please try to polish your comprehension skills.

I have put forth no opinion remotely resembling what you have attributed to me.

End of discussion.

MR

 

Thank you mountainrun for clarifying your position.

As per my posts on p2, I tried to engage the thread topic of position/rankings of believers in heaven - to discuss the viewpoint held by some - that believers will be gnashing their teeth in outer darkness on earth during the millenium. (The lowest ranking!! - if true.) It turns out I included your view wrongly in this, with "I think..." I was not setting up a straw man, it was the current & course of the thread.

 

It DOES get a bit confusing sometimes with all the different opinions of all the different posters.
I'm sorry if I seemed a bit testy.
I was posting at 1 AM after coming off shift and probably shouldn't.

MR

 

2 Cor 5:10 makes it very clear that WE all will have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT of the things we DONE, whether good OR BAD.

Note Paul the apostle wrote this TO CHRISTIANS and he included himself, when he said WE ALL must appear.

Also turn to I Cor 3 verse 13. Here Paul says EACH MAN'S WORK will manifest or evident ON THAT DAY. What day? The day of judgment. Some Christian's works will be so meager, they will barely saved through the fire of God's judgment.See verse 14

If anyone's WORK ENDURES they will receive a REWARD.

 

Anyone want to refute this Scripture or believe what Paul states?

 

Are you teaching works salvation? Sounds like it. However, that is the inevitable outcome of the teaching of rewards.

 

Ahhh, but the joint-heir in the story of the Prodigal was treated better than his brother. For him, the Father killed the fatted calf, put a ring on his finger, and threw a celebration.

 

Yes but the Prodical did no "good works". In fact he was a bum! Perhaps you are proving my point.

 

Old Regular

No, I certainly am NOT teaching a works salvation, but showing what Paul said concerning Christians. In that all of us will have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account for our works in what we did IN OUR BODY or our physical life. Once again read 2 Cor 5:10.

Also when one reads I Cor chapter 3:13 one sees that Paul is speaking of the judgment day when ONE'S WORKS will be tried as if by fire. Those who have done good works will receive a REWARD.This was what I meant.

 

The Prodical

Luke 15:11-32
11. And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12. And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13. And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14. And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15. And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17. And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18. I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19. And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25. Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27. And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

The above parable cannot be used to indicate that there will be rewards in heaven. Please note that though the Father response to the return of the younger son was as follows:

But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

His response to the complaint of the elder son was as follows:

Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

 

You need to study what Paul means when he states that we will be joint heirs with Jesus Christ. That does not leave much room for rewards.