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Featured Another Interpretive Translation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 27, 2023.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here are a few versions of the verse:
    (1 Timothy 6:16)
    NASB: who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

    NKJV: who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

    CSB: who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, to him be honor and eternal power. Amen.

    The problem is that these and the others I looked at all apparently say only the Trinity is or has or possesses immortality. However, every born anew believer has "put on" immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. So what is the actual message of our verse?

    The Greek word (G110 echo) means to (1) hold something, (2) possess something, (3) to be something, and (4) to cling to something. All the above translations go with the second meaning, to possess something, i.e.. immortality. However since every born anew believer also "possesses" immortality, that choice of meaning seems off target. I think meaning number 3 is the actual intended message, the Trinity is, was and always will be immortal. It is a core attribute, not something acquired or held.

    The Greek word (echo) could be rendered "manifesting" which gets at revealing an attribute, and using that verb choice, then the literal "immortality" fits perfectly. So with this effort we get "the only one manifesting immortality...." This verb choice points both to the manifestation of the eternal attribute of the Trinity, and the gift from God of eternal life to born anew believers.

    But an overlap problem arises with "manifesting" because another Greek word is commonly rendered as manifestation. Conveniently, after searching the list of synonyms, "demonstrating" also falls withing the meaning range of "echo" and its usage does not as significantly overlap with the rendering of other Greek words.

    Thus our first clarifying alternate literal choice results in "the one demonstrating immortality and dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1 Timothy 6:16 clarification result:

    NASB: who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

    NKJV: who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

    CSB: who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, to him be honor and eternal power. Amen.

    The next issue for consideration is the choice of "unapproachable" when in fact the "kingdom of light" is approachable. However, it is definitely inaccessible. No one enters by their own volition, only those placed, transferred or "called" into His marvelous light actually gain entry into the kingdom of heaven. Since Matthew 23:13 teaches people were in the process of entering but did not enter, inaccessible better fits the reality being presented.

    The last translation choice to consider comes at the end of the verse, with the NASB going with eternal dominion, and the others with eternal or everlasting power. Here because scripture is ascribing attributes or characteristics to God, from our human perspective, I think "dominion" (ruling power) best conveys the intended message. We give Him glory as our sovereign Lord. Also note the choice of "human" over man or one because humans are in view.

    In summary, here is the interpretive translation based on study of 1 Timothy 6:16:

    "the One demonstrating immortality, dwelling in inaccessible light, whom no human has seen or can see, to Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen"
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In summary, 1 Timothy 6:16 translation choices could be improved as follows:

    "the One demonstrating immortality, dwelling in inaccessible light, whom no human has seen or can see, to Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen"

    Choosing "demonstrating" over and against "having" or"possessing" immortality points both to the Father as an eternal being, and to the fact God conveys immortality to others.

    Choosing "inaccessible" over "unapproachable" avoids the misconception that God's realm is unapproachable when in fact scripture teaches we are to seek the kingdom of God. Matthew 6:33

    Choosing "human" over "man" or "one" allows that angels see the Father, Matthew 18:10

    Choosing "dominion" over "power" heightens our glorification of our sovereign Lord.

    As we study scripture and evaluate the intended messages of God's word, considering alternate and perhaps better translation choices helps us in our effort to rightly divide the word of truth.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    False. That does not happen until the resurrection and rapture.
    Context, ". . . In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. . . ."
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, but your view is wrong, IMHO.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John 3:16, everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

    1) Spiritually dead people are made alive (spiritually) when God transfers the individual's human spirit/soul into Christ's spiritual body. Ephesians 2:5.

    2) Thus those made alive will not perish, thus spiritually immortal.

    Thus we, those born anew, have been made, past tense alive spiritually, and will be, in the future at Christ's second coming made physically immortal.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I received additional information on the reasoning some translations differ from my interpretation.

    "He alone exhibits immortality
    , corrects translating Monos as "one" to "alone."

    I believe the translation "the only one having immortality" is errant as explained in the OP.

    So the 2.0 version would read,
    "He alone exhibits immortality, dwelling in inaccessible light, whom no human has seen or can see, to Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen"

    The idea of inaccessible light as a description of God's heavenly abode, the kingdom of God, fits with the idea that God's purity emanates blinding light to fallen humans, but allows those born anew and residing in His kingdom to view God as described in Revelation.

    Hat tip to Deacon
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Did you mean G2192 instead of G110?

    Relative to the man Jesus, the Son of God, relative to G110. Is not G110 the negative of G2349 that is un-dead, that is Living, Life? Now Consider; 2 Tim 1:10 Darby but has been made manifest now by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has annulled death, and brought to light life [ un-dead, immortality Same as G110] and incorruptibility by the glad tidings [gospel] [life, death & resurrection of Jesus ]

    So when did this un-death take place with Jesus?

    Rom 6:9 NKJV knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

    And being to date Jesus is the only one to have experienced Rom 6:9 methinks G2192 as translated in the OP is correct.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did you [Percho] mean G2192 (echo= has, possesses, exhibits) instead of G110 (athanasia=immortality)?

    I see in the opening post I incorrectly said G110 was echo. Is that your concern?

    Yes, I meant echo (G2192) instead of athanasia (G110).

    The first sentence in the fifth paragraph of the opening post should read, "The Greek word (G2192-echo) means to (1) hold something, (2) possess something, (3) to be something, and (4) to cling to something."
     
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Van, this is the most far-reaching thing you've ever said.

    You know EXACTLY what these verses are talking about. This is describing Jesus Christ - Paul teaching that Jesus Christ is God and having no beginning and no end.

    Human beings have a BEGINNING and are God-given an immortal ENDING based upon their faith in the Jesus Christ is this passage.

    You are comparing apples and oranges and wanting a new fruit.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your view does not stand up to study. Jesus dwelt among us, God incarnate, and was approachable, accessible, visible and understandable. God the Father dwells in inaccessible light as far as fallen humans are concerned.
    And of course humans have a beginning, and when born anew spiritually are made immortal spiritually, as they have everlasting life. The reason individuals are transferred into Christ, and are made immortal by the washing of regeneration, which results in their new birth, is that God alone credited their faith as righteousness.

    1 Timothy 6:16 Interpretive translation:
    "He alone exhibits immortality, dwelling in inaccessible light, whom no human has seen or can see, to Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen"
     
    #12 Van, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Who is the subject of 1 Timothy 6:16, who alone exhibits immortality or deathlessness, who dwells in inaccessible light or light inaccessible, which no human has seen or can see, and has eternal dominion over creation?

    This description certainly can be applied to Yahweh, our Triune God. But can we discern whether just the Person of the Father is in view or just the Person of the Son is in view? I think so!

    In verse 13, we see that Paul's inspired passage has both the Father and the Son in view. At this point in time, Christ as ascended into heaven with the promise of His return, so Paul is giving Timothy instructions to follow until Christ's return.

    Which takes us to verse 15:

    1Timothy 6:15 NASB
    which He will bring about at the proper timeā€”He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,​

    I read this as saying, "which He, the Father, will bring about at the proper time the appearing of God the Son, the only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords." Thus the "He alone" refers to God the Father in my view.

    Several of the commentaries, evade the question and refer to He as "God" and others agree with Scarlett's view that the "He alone" refers to God the Son, in His glorified, non-incarnate, essence. But others side with the view, the He alone refers to God the Father.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    ????

    What did I say that does not stand up to study??

    I said that God [The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] have no beginning and no end.

    Then I said that human beings have a beginning and no end.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If that is all you said in post #11, then you were spot on!
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Immortallity has to do with being exempt from physical death. 1 Corinthians 15:52-55.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Scripture teaches spiritual immortality:

    John 3:16, everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

    1) Spiritually dead people are made alive (spiritually) when God transfers the individual's human spirit/soul into Christ's spiritual body. Ephesians 2:5.

    2) Thus those made alive will not perish, thus spiritually immortal.

    Thus we, those born anew, have been made, past tense alive spiritually, and will be, in the future at Christ's second coming made physically immortal.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You have redefined terms to fit your interpertation. We will have to agree to disagree.

    The simple truth is that our bodies will be immortal in the resurrection and rapture.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I did not "redefine terms."
    A person can be spiritually alive or spiritually dead.

    Here is a "Got Questions" link demonstrating I am presenting the main stream view, and the opponent has "redefined" terms.

    How can it be said that we have everlasting life when we still die? | GotQuestions.org
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #20 37818, Aug 30, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2023
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