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Are you sure you know what 'Quickened' means?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by YokeFellow, Nov 2, 2023.

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  1. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    'Quickened' is a rather peculiar word...

    Ephesians 2:1
    "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"


    It is often associated with something, or someone, that had previously 'died'.

    Here we see it again...

    Ephesians 2:5
    "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)"


    Just how literal is the word 'dead'? We will let the Word of God reveal the answer...

    1 Corinthians 15:35
    "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"


    In the above question, we have clear context. The subject involves those who are physically dead. Moreover, the question assumes that the dead will be raised in a different body.

    Now for the answer...

    1 Corinthians 15:36
    "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"


    As we can see, the word 'dead' is absolutely literal. In other words, there is no mention of a so called 'spiritual death' (whatever that means). Thus, in order for a Life Form to be quickened, it *must* be physically dead. No exceptions.

    We have another Witness here...

    1 Peter 3:18
    "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit"


    'Put to death in the flesh' is as clear as can be. One must physically die first before One can be quickened.

    How about another?

    Romans 8:11
    "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."


    Jesus was not 'spiritually dead'. Scripture interprets Scripture once again.

    Now for an important question. Do you folks teach that only those who are physically dead can be quickened, or do you add unto the Word...

    Ephesians 2:5
    "Even when we were
    [spiritually] dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)"


    I have a feeling that every single one of you here adds the word 'Spiritual' to the verse so that is says what you want it to say, rather than what God wants it to say.

    And what do you think 'in time past' means in this verse?

    Ephesians 2:2
    "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"


    Do you think it means last week? A few years ago? Did you bother to check?

    Ephesians 2:12
    "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"


    The phrase 'time past' was *before* God was in the world. When was that? Was it before you and I were even born? Before Jesus was born? Or is that just a 'figure of speech' not to be taken literally because it does not fit your narrative?
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    John 5: 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live... Brother Glen:)
     
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  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    .. Brother Glen:)
     
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  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    .. Brother Glen:)
     
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  5. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    Those are some of my favorite verses. On a similar note, I believe the Universalists are closest to figuring it all out.

    They just have one more hurdle to overcome having to do with the very OP in this thread.
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 9: 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    .. Brother Glen:)
     
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  7. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    Origen said something interesting...

    "Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid." As, therefore, when the Scriptures are carefully examined regarding Jacob and Esau, it is not found to be unrighteousness with God that it should be said, before they were born, or had done anything in this life, "the elder shall serve the younger;" and as it is found not to be unrighteousness that even in the womb Jacob supplanted his brother, if we feel that he was worthily beloved by God, according to the deserts of his previous life, so as to deserve to be preferred before his brother...

    Complete Works Of Origen : Origen : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    He ended up being censored and shadow-banned by the big media companies and forum admins for saying that.

    They say some things never change...
     
  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Revelation 7: 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    Revelation 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    Brother Glen:)
     
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  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You're telling me that I was physically dead.

    That's a doozy.

    When was I physically dead?

    I believe that the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

    In the question from I Corinthians 15:35, we have the clear context, from I Corinthians 15:35.

    What are you doing skipping over to I Corinthians?

    Are you trying to make the claim that the wording in Ephesians 2 is to be seen within the context of I Corinthians 15?

    That's pretty wild.

    It is too bad you missed the teaching exalting the Glory of God in salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ that is spelled out and dripping all over Ephesians 2 in the context;
    18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father".

    Those who were previously "dead in trespasses and sins" do not have some kind of new ability granted to them where they are now able to personally walk up into the Presence of God the Father, face to Face, in their physical body, as if it is a physical body that Ephesians 2:1 is talking about being "dead", that has now been given the capability to gain "access" "unto the Father", provided to them as soon as "He" "Quickened" their dead body from the grave, physically.

    That's nuts.

    You could say that in that, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God."

    You did try to clearly go about explaining what you believe about it, though.

    That was cool.

    You are shown by it to be clearly in error, but it was all presented plainly.

    Thanks.
     
    #9 Alan Gross, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That word the translator placed in verse 1 is from verse 5.
    ". . . Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) . . . "

    συνεζωοποιησε

    It is not purely the word you think it is.
     
    #10 37818, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
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  11. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    Hi @Alan Gross . I appreciate your input.

    The answer would be yes, absolutely. That is precisely what is being taught.

    In fact, that is what Salvation is all about.
     
  12. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    Nothing is missed. The Bible does not contain contradictions. Of course, the Blood of Jesus is the way out of the cycle.


    Sounds like you may not understand what the Lake of Fire is. It is not a place of 'infinite torments' or 'annihilation'.
     
  13. YokeFellow

    YokeFellow New Member

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    @Alan Gross . Where were we born from?

    Psalms 139:15
    "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."


    According to the verse above, we came from the 'lowest parts of the earth'. That would be Hell, or the Grave would it not?

    Where did Jesus go in this verse...

    Ephesians 4:9
    Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


    Jesus first descended into the womb of Mary to incarnate.

    Thus, Hell is actually referring to the place we all came from...

    Matthew 23:15 (Young's Literal Translation)
    "Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves."


    The phrase 'Son of Gehenna' is just as literal as 'Son of God'.

    We are Sons of Gehenna.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "I have a feeling" that the cheese slid off your cracker.

    What's up then with you adding the word, "physically" to the word, "dead"?

    So, a presumptuous assumption that you guess the it means is automatically allowed to be added to the Word, by you, and everyone is expected to just acquiesce to that kind of madness?

    You are simply adding to the Word and writing it onto the blank pages in the back of the Bible, as if you're saying, "the Word of the Lord came into me".
    ...

    Before someone is born they exist as an individual that will eventually be conceived, are only in the Mind of God, as one of His Elect children that He has given to His Son, Who would or had already have paid the ransom for them by His blood, or not.

    Once, a child is naturally born, that which flesh is flesh, and that baby from the time of their conception, was always a Created physical entity.

    It is appointed once to die.

    "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Hebrew 9:27.

    So, we have something that is a physical child, who then grows up in life and they stay alive and until their appointed time, when their physical body dies.

    You are saying sometime within their lifetime they have to get killed, before they can be a candidate for salvation and in the position to receive the New Birth, only after they are physically dead?

    That's what you see Ephesians teaching, that a person that is physically dead is physically Quickened to life physically?

    Or, exactly what on earth are you saying?

    Somehow you've come up the God-aweful foolishness of telling me that I died somewhere back during my lifetime, that I would happen to know about, as to whether I did or not, in order for you to then propose that my having been physically dead at some point is the primary determining fact of God regarding the subject of salvation, as if "that what Salvation is all about?"

    I don't think you are going to be able to procure any kind of teaching or understanding about Salvation at all, by thinking anything about Salvation can be associated with, or added into all that kind of malarkey.

    Fascinating.
    ...
     
  15. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    OP is banned. Thread closed.
     
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