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Featured BAPTIST SUCCESSION

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by 37818, Aug 29, 2022.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    THE DEMOCRATIC FORM OF CHURCH GOVERNMENT PROVED


    1. It may be argued from the very word ekklesia, which was chosen by Christ to designate His churches. The word designates something that can assemble. A world church or a national or a provincial church could not assemble under present conditions. Like the Greek cities, each assembly is independent and therefore complete in itself as to the government of itself.


    2. The whole matter of discipline, formative and corrective, was committed by Christ through the apostles to each individual church, and not to church officers or to a higher body. #1Co 5:1-13;

    "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations" (#Ro 14:1);

    "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (#Ro 16:17);

    "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" (#2Th 3:6);

    "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglects to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican" (#Mt 18:17).


    3. It is the duty of the whole church to maintain unity in its faith and practice.

    "Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits" (#Ro 12:16);

    "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" (#1Co 1:10);

    "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace"
    (#Eph 4:3);

    "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel" (#Php 1:27).

    A. H. Strong says: "A quiet and peaceful unity is the result of the Holy Spirit's work in the hearts of Christians. New Testament church government proceeds upon the supposition that Christ dwells in all believers. Baptist polity is the best polity for good people. Christ has made no provision for unregenerate church membership, and for the Satanic possession of Christians.

    It is best that a church in which Christ does not dwell should by dissension, reveals its weakness, and fall to pieces; and any outward organization that conceals inward disintegration, and compels a merely formal union after He has departed, is a hindrance instead of a help to true religion."

    These are plain words and our hearts should be exercised by them. There is much outward union today, where there is no unity of the Spirit in the faith.



    OFFICERS OF THE CHURCH


    There are only two commissioned officers in a New Testament Church, namely, the pastor and deacon. The pastor is also known as bishop and elder. Bishop, meaning overseer, denotes the duties, and elder, the rank of office. Bishop and elder are equivalent terms.

    "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre" (#Tit 1:5-7).

    When the church is looked at as a flock of sheep, the bishop is called pastor or feeder of the sheep.


    The deacons are to be helpers to the pastor. Their official duties consist primarily, if not exclusively, of looking after the temporal and material needs of the body, such as feeding the poor, financing the church, etc. The pastor is to be free from temporal and secular matters that he may give himself to that which is exclusively spiritual, prayer, and the ministry of the word. He is to teach and, therefore, must give himself to study. He must be "apt to teach".

    "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach"
    (#1Ti 3:2);

    "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (#2Ti 2:24).

    In order to have something to teach he must study.

    "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (#2Ti 2:15).

    The members must support him with their carnal things.

    "Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things" (#Ga 6:6);

    "If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?...Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel" (#1Co 9:11,14).


    Deacons ought to be men of spiritual power, for they are to handle the money of the church:

    "Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre" (#1Ti 3:8).

    They are to be sound in the faith, for they are to support the pastor when he preaches the truth. Much criticism of the pastor could be silenced, when he preaches unpopular doctrines if the deacons,

    "holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience" (#1Ti 3:9)
    would give their support. Next to the pastor, the deacon needs to be learned men in the once-delivered faith.
     
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    First, I loved what you wrote (the whole post). Thank you.

    However, (you knew there was a “but” coming, fortunately it is not a serious one) I was wondering how the Jerusalem Council in Acts fits into what you wrote about absolute democracy being the biblical church model?
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Unless I missed something, before any action was taken on what the Jewish Christians/ Apostles discussed, it was given to the church in Jerusalem for a Democratic Vote.

    That is what I see, here:

    "Acts 15:22; Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas;..."
     
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Why did what Jerusalem thought matter if only Christ was King and every local church was an independent democracy?

    (It suggests a Church Hierarchy greater than 100% Local Autonomy - even if that hierarchy perished with the Apostles.)
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "...what the Jewish Christians/ Apostles discussed,...", was discussed by Jewish Christians/ Apostles that were members of The First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.

    Then, what they arrived at that pleased them was shared with the members of
    The First Baptist Church of Jerusalem and pleased them to vote and send out a letter by their Authority.

    There was no hierarchy, simply men who were members like all the other members, even if they were Apostles or elders.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Also see: The Concept of the Church as A Universal, Invisible,
    Mystical, Spiritual Body Composed of all Believers,
    Either of All Time or the Church Age
    and:
    Ten Bible Proofs of Baptist (-like) Perpetuity

    Recap on:
    History of Baptist (-like) Churches


    by Dr. Gail Terrell

    Throughout history, Baptist-like (etc.) churches have taught and baptized believers and organized them into new Baptist churches.

    In this process, Baptists distributed the Bible in copied and translated forms throughout the world.

    Baptists translated and spread the Bible to people in their own languages.

    The Bible has traveled through the centuries on the Royal Highway of the Trail of Blood, the history of Baptist churches.

    Baptist churches send missionaries to spread the Word of God.

    Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    Since Jesus started His first church, Baptists (with various nicknames) have continued throughout the centuries, taking the Word of God wherever they went and establishing churches in the faith. They were called heretics and Anabaptists (Greek, re-immersers) by Roman and Orthodox Catholics, Protestants, and other man-made churches because they refused to accept the baptisms of these false churches. Anabaptist churches used the Bible as the standard for life and baptized all believers who had questionable baptisms.

    Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    Acts 16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

    Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    [​IMG]


    Also, please see: BAPTIST CHURCH PERPETUITY,
    from the Time of Christ, until He Comes Again.


    con't
     
    #66 Alan Gross, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Baptist Names throughout history

    Montanist (meaning mountain people) Baptists of Phrygia (2nd century), led by Montanus and Tertullian, spread throughout Asia Minor.

    Novatian Baptists (3rd century), named for their pastor, Novatian (Roman philosopher converted in 250 A.D.), spread throughout the Roman Empire from Armenia to Spain, and into the great cities of Constantinople, Alexandria, Carthage, and Rome. They were numerous in Phrygia where Montanists joined them.

    Donatist Baptists of North Africa (4th-7th centuries), named for their pastor, Donatus, spread throughout North Africa in an area 2000 miles long (Egypt to the Atlantic) by 300 miles wide (Mediterranean Sea to the desert).

    Paulician Baptists of Armenia (7th-12th centuries) were known for their love of Paul’s Epistles. Their pastor, Silvanus, called his followers Pauline congregations.

    Albigense Baptists of Albi, France (11th-13th centuries), in the Pyrenees Mountains were evangelized by the Paulicians of Asia. They spread throughout France and Italy.

    Paterine Baptists, also called Cathari (Latin, catharoi meaning pure ones), flourished in Italy, France and more especially in the South of France (11th-13th centuries). They were evangelized by the Paulicians of Asia. Paterine Baptists took in the daughters of indigent noblemen and educated them in the Scriptures.

    Petrobrussian Baptists of Southern France (12th century) were named for their pastor, Peter deBruys, who was succeeded by Henry of Lusanne, Italy, and eventually became known as Henricians. These Baptists spread to Switzerland with the Word of God.

    Arnoldist Baptists of Italy (12th century) were named for their pastor, Arnold of Brescia, great teacher of soul-liberty who was martyred for the faith. They evangelized Switzerland.

    Waldense or Vaudois (varied spellings from the Latin vallis meaning dwellers in valleys) Baptists of Switzerland and of the Alpine (Alps) of the Piedmont region of Italy (12th-13th centuries) were ledby Peter Waldo. Waldensian Baptists taught that the Holy Scriptures are the highest standard of judgment, the only authoritative rule of faith. Waldense Baptists spread themselves and their teachings all over Europe and England in the 12th century A.D. Their spiritual descendants in the 14th century became teachers of Wickliffe and his followers. Over half the people of England who followed Wickliffe’s teaching became Baptists.

    Anabaptists of the Reformation Period in Europe and England (16th-17th centuries) taught that the Scriptures are the only authority in matters of faith and practice. [Anabaptists] sent forth a multitude of missionaries so that Melancthos could say that they went where no evangelical, Lutheran and Zwinglian, had penetrated… For a hundred years Switzerland was drained of her sturdy sons, who in great numbers braved the loss of their goods and the long journey through hostile territory and the price set upon their heads by the Bavarian dukes in order to reach Moravia, where they might enjoy some little freedom to worship God. From Moravia, they sent out missionaries in scores to all parts of Germany, Tyrol and Switzerland, to Hungary, Silesia and Poland, who took their lives in their hands that they might preach the word of their Redeemer and raise up churches to his praise… [Anabaptists] were the most determined colporteurs and missionaries throughout Europe. The only reference I have found to any heathen land I have given in Armitage, where the persecuted flocks think of settling in America among “the red Jews Columbus has just discovered.” This was in 1524…(Jarrell’s Baptist Church Perpetuity,p. 189-190).

    Welch Baptists of Wales claim continuous existence from apostolic times to the present. They would have order and no confusion the word of God their only rule.

    The Olchon Baptists must have been a separate people, maintaining the order of the New Testament in every generation from the year 63 to the present time (Davis’ History of Welsh Baptists, p. 19)

    Baptists immigrated to America to spread the missionary Gospel of Christ and organize new Baptist churches, and to teach God’s Word to the people.

    Baptist churches continue to send missionaries throughout the world giving the Bible to the people in their own languages."

    History of my church, Bryan Station Baptist Church, Lexington, Kentucky:

    Bryan Station Baptist Church is a local, visible, called-out assembly of scripturally baptized believers, covenanted together according to the Biblical pattern of a “one member, one vote,” spirit-led democracy; whose purpose is the carrying out of the Great Commission of Matthew 28:16-20.

    The Bible teaches that only such a church as this is authorized and constructed to be able to do so.

    Our authority came, according to the Biblical doctrine of “church succession,” through particular New England “separate” Baptists who had sought out existing Baptist churches for this arm of authority. Such were Elders Shubeal Sterns and Daniel Marshall who, once they were saved, sought out Baptist Baptism; Shubeal Sterns at the Baptist Church at Toland, Connecticut on May 20, 1751; and Daniel Marshall from Winsor, Connecticut, saved and burdened to preach, came to Winchester, Virginia where he became convinced of the soundness of Baptist doctrine and was immersed at the age of forty-eight.

    After a few years each under sound ministry, and after becoming licensed to preach by their respective churches, they were found laboring in Virginia, North and South Carolina and Georgia. They remained in Virginia only a short while “but the power of God was effectual in the conversion of Samuel Harris, a man of great distinction…” who at length became greatly used of the Lord.

    “Sometime in 1766… Elijah Craig and two others came to this same Mr. Harris’s home in order to procure his services in Orange County, Va. and adjacent parts; to preach and baptize and organize new converts. They found to their surprise that he himself at that time had not yet been ordained; but being more perfectly instructed in the way of the Lord he carried them about 60 miles into North Carolina to get James Read (who was ordained) (Robert B. Semple, “A History of the Rise and Progress of the Baptists in Virginia.”) and (John T. Christian, “A History of the Baptists,” pg. 215, vol. 2), even as Jesus traveled at least as far to receive baptism at the hands of a Baptists preacher (Mark 1:9-14).

    From this beginning, churches were established and ordination by them was begun (John T. Christian, pg. 216, vol.2), and a church was soon founded at Spotsylvania, Va. – the Spotsylvania Baptist Church, pastored by Elder Lewis Craig. And it is from this church, when it became the famous “Traveling Church” in September of 1781 when Lewis Craig led the whole church over the Cumberland Gap to settle in the bluegrass region of Central Kentucky, that the authority for our Bryan Station Baptist Church came, organized in 1786.

    We believe we are to take our history seriously. It is a glorious history.
    May the Lord grant we live up to it.

    ...

    Also, please see: BAPTIST CHURCH PERPETUITY,
    from the Time of Christ, until He Comes Again.


    If you would like to fill in any "gaps", in Baptist History, it is here, from the Bible:
    Revelation 12:6; "And the woman fled into the wilderness ..."
     
    #67 Alan Gross, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and to think - that I thought Roger Williams (originally an Anglican, then a Puritan - then founded the first Baptist church in the New World - in Providence, Rhode Island.
    But as far as the OP - I dont know if Roger Williams believed in the Universal church.
    (In fact, has anyone answered that question in the OP????)
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    is that, above, supposed to be "the question (?) in the OP?"

     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Church That Jesus Built
    By B. H. Hillard, Pastor
    Lockland Baptist Church
    Lockland, Ohio

    ============================

    Baptist Highlights

    Baptists have wielded a powerful influence on American governmental policies and legislation.

    Roger Williams, one of the most powerful figures in early Colonial activities, was a Baptist.

    President Warren G. Harding was a Baptist, while the fathers of Presidents Chester A. Arthur and Wm. Howard Taft were Baptists.

    President Abraham Lincoln attributed all he was to a Baptist Mother, while Calvin Coolidge said: "My grandmother was a Baptist, therefore I do not dance."

    Henry Clay, one of America's foremost statesmen, was the son of a Baptist preacher, as is true of Chief Justice Charles Evan Hughes.

    The father of Wm. Jennings Bryan was a Baptist.

    George Washington relied on Baptists much in the directing of the course of the Revolution.

    Lloyd George, the great British Statesman, is a Baptist.

    Some of the world's great preachers have been Baptists: Charles H. Spurgeon, F. B. Meyer, Alexander McClaren, A. J. Gordon, Andrew Fuller.

    John Milton, author of "Paradise Lost" and "Paradise Regained," was a Baptist, as was John Bunyan, author of "Pilgrim's Progress."

    ============================
    1
    In speaking of Baptists, I speak of the age-long Fundamentalist group, and not of the Modernistic tribe.



    The Church's Origin
    In Matthew 16:17-18 Jesus says to Peter:

    Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jesus spoke in response to Peter's assertion that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

    In essence, Jesus said, according to the original, Thou are PETROS (a little rock), and upon this PETRA (a big rock) I will build my Church. This is in perfect accord with Ephesians 2:20 -And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. The church was not built upon Peter himself, nor upon his faith or confession, but upon Jesus.

    From the day Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," there has been a church in the world bearing all the marks of New Testament origin, an institution of which He is and shall forever be the Head (Colossians 1:18).



    John the Baptist the Forerunner

    John the Baptisst, called, named, and ordained of God, was the first Baptist preacher (Matthew 3:1-11), who baptized Jesus and all the apostles including the successor to Judas Iscariot (Acts 1:21-22). Jesus walked sixty miles to be baptized by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:13-17). With Jesus it made a difference by whom he was baptized. Jesus was immersed in the Jordan -

    And Jesus was baptized of John IN Jordan (Mark 1:9); And Jesus when he was baptized went UP straightway OUT OF the water (Matthew 3:16). With Jesus it made a difference as to HOW he was baptized.

    Jesus was baptized "to fulfull all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15). With Jesus it made a difference as to WHY he was baptized. He had no sins to "wash away," and thus was not baptized in order to be saved.

    Out of this Baptist material which John prepared, Jesus built His Church.

    2
    Historical perpetuity to identify a modern New Testament Church:


    -I-
    Historical Perpetuity

    No reliable historian has ever pointed to a single man who ever claimed the honor of having been the head and founder of a Baptist Church this side of Jesus and the apostles, and on the other hand the world's leading historians have ascribed to Baptists as having had their origin with Jesus, a number of whom speak as follows:

    Bureau of the Census United States Department of Commerce:

    The Baptist bodies of today trace their origin as distinct communities to the Protestant Reformation. It is claimed, indeed, that the churches of the apostolic age were in doctrine, polity and ordinances the exact counterparts of Baptist churches today.

    Cardinal Hosius (Catholic, 1544). President of the Council of Trent: Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater numbers than all the Reformers.
    The "twelve hundred years" were the years preceding the reformation in which Rome presecuted Baptists with the most cruel persecution thinkable.

    Sir Isaac Newton The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome.

    Jacob Mosheim (Lutheran)
    Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists.

    Edingburg Cyclopedia (Presbyterian): It must have already occurred to our readers that the Baptists are the same sect of Christians that were formerly described as Anabaptists. Indeed this seems to have been their leading principles from the time of Tertullian to the present time.
    Tertullian was born just fifty years after the death of the apostle John.

    John Clark Ridpath (Methodist): I should not readily admit that there were Baptists churches as far back as A.D. 100, although without a doubt there were Baptists then, as all Christians were Baptists.

    etc., etc.
    3
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    ...

    The church at Jerusalem was the only one in existence.

    Members of the 100% Local Autonomy of Jerusalem were the only ones in the "Council at Jerusalem", as an independent democracy.

    Then that church group voted on it, as an independent democracy

     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It was a statement. Not a question.
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Church and the Ordinances

    THE PROBLEM OF HISTORY

    "Church history is, like all other histories, an account of what somebody sees, and the account becomes at most a conscientious interpretation. In spite of all effort, the historian must write as he sees with the facts which are at his command. The historian has not personally witnessed all that has taken place over the last

    [98]
    two thousand years; he writes what he gleans from what others have left in their writings and attempts to interpret it for the reader. Much that was said and done in history was not recorded, and much that was recorded has been destroyed. Furthermore, the same events, in many cases, may have meanings to some that they do not to others.

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION


    "For instance, the Anabaptists may be to some historians a band of foolish radicals, while to others they may be the persecuted heroes of the Cross. The historian's account will magnify or minimize certain events in their lives according to how he evaluates them as a people.

    "...Ecclesiastical history can find its radical movements, its fanatics, its false leaders as well as its true, its ignorance and its intelligence, its divisions and its unity, its good days and bad days. It would depend on the evaluation of the historian as to how its events and people would be interpreted. Yet, to some of us, the course of history clear back to the apostles reveals groups of people all along the way who contended "for the faith once delivered to the saints." Whether or not our baptism is successive all the way back, no one can prove: On the other hand, no one can prove that such a succession does not exist.

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION


    "One thing we can be sure of: there has been made available enough reliable historical proof about the people called Baptists to identify them in their beliefs with some religious groups in every age back to the apostles.

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION



    "While history does not make out an ironclad case for successive baptism, it does give a good case for the perpetuity of churches which can be identified with the kind of church specifically recognized as a church in the New Testament."



    BAPTIST SUCCESSION

    How I Became a "Narrower" Baptist, By Roy Mason, 1930
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Church and the Ordinances

    THE PROBLEM OF HISTORY

    "Church history is, like all other histories, an account of what somebody sees, and the account becomes at most a conscientious interpretation. In spite of all effort, the historian must write as he sees with the facts which are at his command. The historian has not personally witnessed all that has taken place over the last

    [98]
    two thousand years; he writes what he gleans from what others have left in their writings and attempts to interpret it for the reader. Much that was said and done in history was not recorded, and much that was recorded has been destroyed. Furthermore, the same events, in many cases, may have meanings to some which they do not to others.

    "For instance, the Anabaptists may be to some historians a band of foolish radicals, while to others they may be the persecuted heroes of the Cross. The historian's account will magnify or minimize certain events in their lives according to how he evaluates them as a people.

    "...Ecclesiastical history can find its radical movements, its fanatics, its false leaders as well as its true, its ignorance and its intelligence, its divisions and its unity, its good days and bad days. It would depend on the evaluation of the historian as to how its events and people would be interpreted. Yet, to some of us, the course of history clear back to the apostles reveals groups of people all along the way who contended "for the faith once delivered to the saints." Whether or not our baptism is successive all the way back, no one can prove: On the other hand, no one can prove that such a succession does not exist.

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION


    "One thing we can be sure of: there has been made available enough reliable historical proof about the people called Baptists to identify them in their beliefs with some religious groups in every age back to the apostles.

    BAPTIST SUCCESSION


    BAPTIST SUCCESSION


    "While history does not make out an ironclad case for successive baptism, it does give a good case for the perpetuity of churches which can be identified with the kind of church specifically recognized as a church in the New Testament."



    BAPTIST SUCCESSION

    How I Became a "Narrower" Baptist, By Roy Mason, 1930
     
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