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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Feb 9, 2024.

  1. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    No, that’s not works. It’s just God honoring the condition He Himself put on salvation. It is not unconditional. Acts 16:31.

    “Works” implies earning something. Obeying God’s command to repent and believe isn’t earning something. Christ earned it all in our stead.
     
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  2. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    What is false?
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    And so we disagree.

    The passages you quoted say nothing of election.

    peace to you
     
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  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    One view has God responding to what someone does and then making them “elect”.

    My view has folks responding to what God does. That demonstrates God’s grace.

    It’s ok if we disagree.

    peace to you
     
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I see a lot from you that we get faith after we are saved but I do not see any verses that support you view. What scripture are you basing your view on?
     
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  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You have seen nothing from me stating anyone gets faith after they are saved.

    Please stop speaking falsehoods.

    peace to you
     
    #26 canadyjd, Feb 12, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2024
  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You make a number of philosophical comments but that is just you opinion. So please stop being evasive.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I made no such claim for the perseverance of the saints.

    You ignore my argument. God does the saving. And God does the keeping. God doing the keeping is how the saints persever.
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes we disagree.
    The Scripture nowhere teaches election before salvation.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    That’s why it is properly called the preservation of the saints.

    If I cannot save myself, it follows that I cannot keep myself.
     
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  11. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    1 Cor: 9:24. Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it.
    25. Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one.
    26. So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air;
    27. but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified. (NRSV)
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually when you look at the KJV+, NKJV+, ABP+, NASB+ or the TRi+ you find that G5281
    is translated as perseverance, endurance, patient enduring, patience, steadfastness but never preservation.
    These are all qualities that the saved individual is to exhibit in their Christian lives.
     
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  13. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    The BDAG (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd Edition [January 15, 2001]), on page 1039 concurs. And, of course, Calvin, writing in Latin, used the word “perseverare” rather than the word “conservatio.”
     
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  14. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What is the point?
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    show me in scripture this is the case
     
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  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    One more post to you.

    I have clearly stated my opinion. That is not being evasive.

    You have stated falsehoods about what my opinion is.

    Since I spoke very clearly, never stating salvation comes before faith, you must not be reading my posts or (more likely) you prefer regurgitating falsehoods rather than actually addressing what I have stated.

    Whichever is the case, responding to you is a waste of time and cyber space.

    peace to you
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’ll let you find it on your own. We remember things better when we search the scriptures ourselves.

    Hint,,,, It’s somewhere in the back.:)

    peace to you
     
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  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Totally Depraved with Total Inability Ungodly sinner,

    Under the instramentality and the Holy Spirit using the means
    of "the Gospel (message as it) was preached to Abraham" (for one example)

    that Ungodly sinner is Enabled to Spiritually understand and
    is Granted Repentence and Given Faith (I will win this one)
    AND SPIRITUALLY REGENERATED in the New Birth.

    They have been Given the Ability to Believe Jesus Paid their sin debt
    And that God Accepted Jesus' Payment for them, AND their sin is Pardoned.

    Along with this Pardoning of their sins,
    they have Jesus Righteous Imputed/Credited to them.

    That is the Righteousness that was Jesus' that He had Earned under the Law,
    That HAS NOW BECOME THE PARDONED SINNER'S RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    God sees 'their' righteousness, now, as them being without sin,
    And with no guilt charged to their Account and so, GOD JUSTIFIES THEM.

    "WHOM HE CALLS THEM HE ALSO JUSTIFIES"

    That Newly Saved soul's FAITH they had been Given
    Was In The Person and Work of Jesus,
    The Newly Saved soul's FAITH was in The Object of their Faith, Jesus,
    And it is the Object of their Faith, JESUS, Who's RIGHTEOUSNESS
    THAT HAS NOW BEEN CREDITED TO THEM,

    For having Faith on Him,

    FAITH ON JESUS, JESUS WHO POSSESSED RIGHTEOUSNESS,

    THEN, ONCE JESUS' RIGHTEOUSNESS BECOMES THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS,
    Again, it is then THEIR VERY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS,

    THEN,

    "THEIR FAITH IS COUNTED UNTO THEM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

    It is the Righteousness of the Object of their Faith (they have been Given),
    AND THAT WAS Jesus' Righteousness (that had also been Given to them)
    that is "counted to them for righteousness".

    It is not faith or righteousness that Originated with the sinner.

    It's their faith they were Given.

    And yet, it's their righteousness, too, all right.

    After God Imputes Jesus' Righteousness to them.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm I already know the answer. It's not there. I am asking you to support your claim with scripture.
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Using the five points of Calvinism as the templet. To present what I understand should be the Biblical truths on those five issues. Unfortunately not all Biblical Christians can agree on those five points.
     
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