Democrats and Unions Plot to Seize Individual 401Ks

[carpro]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39336

New Lame Duck Threat to Bailout Union Pensions
by Connie Hair
10/08/2010

Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more "fairly" distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee heard from hand-picked witnesses advocating the infamous "Guaranteed Retirement Account" (GRA) authored by Theresa Guilarducci.

(You can find the blistering interview with Guilarducci by radio talk show host Mark Levin in 2007 at the link).

In a nutshell, under the GRA system government would seize private 401(k) accounts, setting up an additional 5% mandatory payroll tax to dole out a "fair" pension to everyone using that confiscated money coupled with the mandated contributions. This would, of course, be a sister government ponzi scheme working in tandem with Social Security, the primary purpose being to give big government politicians additional taxpayer funds to raid to pay for their out-of-control spending.

 

[HankD]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39336

New Lame Duck Threat to Bailout Union Pensions
by Connie Hair
10/08/2010

Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more "fairly" distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee heard from hand-picked witnesses advocating the infamous "Guaranteed Retirement Account" (GRA) authored by Theresa Guilarducci.

(You can find the blistering interview with Guilarducci by radio talk show host Mark Levin in 2007 at the link).

In a nutshell, under the GRA system government would seize private 401(k) accounts, setting up an additional 5% mandatory payroll tax to dole out a "fair" pension to everyone using that confiscated money coupled with the mandated contributions. This would, of course, be a sister government ponzi scheme working in tandem with Social Security, the primary purpose being to give big government politicians additional taxpayer funds to raid to pay for their out-of-control spending.

Share the wealth komrade!

HankD

 

[webdog]

...and what is Bernie Madhoff in prison for exactly when our gov't does the same things?

 

[sag38]

Where are our local Dem lovers? Please defend this. I'd like to see how you justify this. Show me how this is good for the United States especially considering how the government has handled SS. And, now they want total control of my retirement savings? Please, when will the Obamanization end? I can't take anymore "change."

 

[targus]

Where are our local Dem lovers? Please defend this. I'd like to see how you justify this. Show me how this is good for the United States especially considering how the government has handled SS. And, now they want total control of my retirement savings? Please, when will the Obamanization end? I can't take anymore "change."

You misunderstand.

They don't want control of your retirement savings...

They want your retirement savings.

 

[sag38]

The silence is deafening!!!!!

 

[billwald]

The links to the details didn't work.

One can always convert to a Roth IRA?

The theory of SS was that company pensions and personal savings would exist. Company pensions are gone and people are not saving.

What is the alternative? Old people eating out of dumpsters and soup lines?

 

[targus]

The links to the details didn't work.

One can always convert to a Roth IRA?

The theory of SS was that company pensions and personal savings would exist. Company pensions are gone and people are not saving.

What is the alternative? Old people eating out of dumpsters and soup lines?

So you support the idea of taking the retirement savings of those who did save to give to those who did not?

And why stop at IRA's?

Why not just confiscate everyone's bank accounts and investment portfolios while they are at it?

 

[preachinjesus]

Has a bill been proposed or are these just witnesses for an empty hearing?

Just curious.

 

[billwald]

None of the links have any proposal to confiscate existing IRA funds.

 

[targus]

None of the links have any proposal to confiscate existing IRA funds.

Oh - so you are only ok with them confiscating 401k funds.

Why only 401k funds - why not IRA's, 403B accounts?

Why not union pension funds?

 

[Don]

None of the links have any proposal to confiscate existing IRA funds.

Bill, that's pretty generous of you. You're offering to give up your personal investments in order to support others. I'm impressed.

That is, unless you don't have a 401K...in which case, you're supporting giving away other people's money.

Ya know, I think I'm gonna start filling up mason jars and burying them in the back yard....

 

[sag38]

Bill isn't worried. Unions are special and would probably be exempt if this abomination is allowed to happen. Isn't wonderful being knowing that you are big brother's friend.

 

[billwald]

>>None of the links have any proposal to confiscate existing IRA funds.

>Bill, that's pretty generous of you. You're offering to give up your personal investments in order to support others. I'm impressed.

Learn to read! The initial post claimed existing IRAs would be confiscated.

 

[targus]

Learn to read! The initial post claimed existing IRAs would be confiscated.

Actually the OP says 401K not IRAs.

Still wondering if you have a problem with the government taking ANY retirement savings from anybody - regardless of the type of account.

Are you ok with the government taking peoples 401K account?

 

[carpro]

Another really neat portion of the GRA proposal:

Analysts point to another disturbing part of the plan. With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.

 

[targus]

Learn to read! The initial post claimed existing IRAs would be confiscated.

Actually taking IRA's too are part of the discussion of the GRA.

"Stephen Hill, reported on CommonDreams.org last August, a study by the New America Foundation, which outlined how Social Security could double its revenue and spread its enhanced benefits further, freeing employers from providing retirement, which would eliminate the employer tax deductions, which cost the treasury billions.. Hill called it "Social Security Plus," and suggested that greater benefits could not only help the economy but could eliminate the individual tax deductions, which only benefit people who can afford 401(k)s and IRAs.

Ghilarducci makes the same point, that 401(k)s and IRAs, in which taxes on earnings are deferred, reduce tax receipts by $193 billion a year."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/saul-friedman/a-novel-idea-social-secur_b_753536.html

If you think about it - if someone thinks that taking 401K accounts is a good idea - why would they stop there.

Why would and IRA account be any different?

After all, only mean, thieving, cheating, rich people have 401K and IRA accounts.

We should have them throw in 403B accounts while they are at it.

Oh wait... 403B accounts are government union employees so they would not be affected.

 

[billwald]

>Analysts point to another disturbing part of the plan. With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.

Never thought about dying before collecting. A person who died with a large IRA - his estate would owe income taxes and estate taxes on all of it at once. About half sounds right.

No, I'm not in favor of the government changing the rules in mid stream for anyone with any existing program. If the government wants to change rules for new money, then no complaint.

Don't know anything about 403b accounts. I do know the retirement program for new hires is much less than the old system, as are the programs for new hires in the states. But the new people know THEIR rules when they hire on.