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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alex2165, Jul 28, 2022.

  1. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Active Member

    Jul 22, 2020
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    Seeking Christ

    Amos 3.6
    "If a calamity occurs in a city, has not the Lord done it?"

    So many debates and so many questions have been ask about this particular subject concerning GOD and disasters.

    It never stops when people complain and ask question, "Why GOD do not stop wars, diseases, and "natural" disasters, and so on?"

    I personally know one person who admitted that at one point in time his faith in GOD was in jeopardy and shaking because his young daughter died from a certain sickness. And he asked himself the same question: Why GOD took his daughter, why He did not listened his prayers and did not heal his child?

    Everybody can understand to a certain extend grief of the parents when they lost their child to disease, accident, or violence, and usually the parents at lost without knowing the real reason and explanation why it happened to them.

    For non-believers this can be explained simply by random accident, bad luck, be at the wrong place at the wrong time, and by other superstitious or supernatural things.

    But for a Christian it means a different explanation. It is not a secret for us that GOD made many calamities and disasters of all sorts according to evil inclination of men's heart.

    In such disasters made by GOD not only guilty died but also and innocent people and children. Most people think that whoever dies in these disasters certainly are all guilty before GOD in one way or another and so they punished in such way, which is partially true because GOD always punishes guilty people by different calamities.

    But what about innocent, young, and small children who also perish in GOD'S made disasters, why they die together with the guilty party?

    This question I heard many times and I cannot provide any definite answer, but I can say one thing that DEATH itself not necessary always presented in the Bible as punishment or even bad thing.

    Certain scriptures of the Bible present DEATH in different light, particularly DEATH of those who GOD loves.

    Psalm 116.15
    15.Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His faithful ones.

    Isaiah 57.1-2
    1.The righteous perish and no one takes it to heart, the devout (sincere) are taken away while no one understands. The righteous are taken away from calamity,

    2.and they enter into peace, those who walks uprightly will rest on their couches.

    Ezekiel 18.4.32
    4."All souls are Mine, the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

    32.I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD, "Therefore, repent and live." (verse 23) (Ezekiel 33.11)

    Luke 20.35-36
    35."but those who are considered worthy of a place (in Heaven) in that age (in their time) and in the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage.

    36.Indeed, they cannot die anymore, because they are like angels, and are children of GOD, being children of the resurrection.

    (Matthew 22.23-30) (Mark 12.18-25) (Luke 20.27-36)

    38.Now, He is GOD not of the dead but of the living, to Him all of them are alive.”

    Isaiah 26.19
    19.Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise (Ezekiel 37.1-14). O dwellers in the dust (Genesis 3.19) (Psalm 103.14) (Ecclesiast 3.20, 12.7), awake and sing for joy! Your dew is a radiant dew, and the Earth will give birth *to those long dead. (Ezekiel 37.1-14) (Daniel 12.2) (Hosea 13.14) (Ephesians 5.14)

    *"to the departed spirits" KSB.

    Romans 6.3-13.16.2
    3.Do you know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus, were baptized into His death?

    4.Therefore, we have been buried with Him by baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

    5.If we have been united with Him in death like His, we will certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His.

    6.We know that our old self was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.

    7.Whoever has died is freed from sin.

    8.But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him.

    9.We know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again, death no longer has dominion over Him.

    10.The death He died, He died to sin, once for all, but the life He lives, He lives to GOD.

    Romans 14.7-8
    7.We do not live to ourselves and we do not die to ourselves.

    8.If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord, so then whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.

    Philippians 1.21
    21.For me living is Christ, and dying is gain.

    Revelation 14.13

    13.And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on! 'Yes', says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, their deeds follow with them."

    The passages above is a proof that DEATH is necessary to old and to young, to guilty and to innocent, in order to be separated from GOD or to be with Him forever. Here we are talking about physical DEATH and not Spiritual one. Death serves good and bad purposes and all of it depend on a human being and the will of the Lord.
  2. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Member

    Aug 20, 2019
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    Non Baptist Christian
    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    6. Is a horn (Amos 2:2) blown in a city, and are the people not in alarm?] Of course they are: for they know it to be the signal of approaching danger. The horn was blown as a summons to repel an invader, etc. (Hosea 5:8; Jeremiah 6:1; Ezekiel 33:3 f.; 1 Corinthians 14:8).

    will calamity (not moral evil) happen in (RSV. befall) a city & Jehovah hath not done it?] Will evil—i.e. calamity, misfortune, as 1 Samuel 6:9—happen in a city without having its sufficient cause in Jehovah’s purpose? The Hebrews often took no account of what we term ‘secondary causes’; and a calamity, such as famine or pestilence, which might be the natural consequence of some physical antecedent, is thus referred here directly to Jehovah’s operation.

    6–8. Similarly the horn is a signal of danger; calamity is a sign that Jehovah has willed it; and the appearance of a prophet is an indication that Jehovah has sent him.

    “Evil which is sin the Lord has not done, evil which is punishment for evil the Lord plans for & allows it to be brought about.” (Augustine.) Compare, as illustrations of the truth of Amos 3:7, the revelation of the Divine purpose to Noah with reference to the Deluge, to Abraham with respect to Sodom, to Joseph about the famine in Egypt & to Moses concerning Pharaoh. The prophets of the Lord have given full warning of the judgment of God upon all sin." Charles John Ellicott

    James 1:2-16 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect & complete, lacking in nothing.

    5If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach & it will be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven & tossed by the wind. 7For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

    9Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation 10 & the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grassc he will pass away. 11For the sun rises with its scorching heat & withers the grass; its flower falls & its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.

    12Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God CANNOT BE TEMPTED WITH EVIL & HE HIMSELF TEMPTS NO ONE. 14But each person is tempted when he is lured & enticed BY HIS OWN DESIRE. 15Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin & sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

    Genesis 50:19,20 But Joseph replied, “Do not be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people.

    Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

    Deuteronomy 30:1-20 “When all these things come upon you—the blessings & curses I have set before you—& you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, 2& when you & your children return to the LORD your God & obey His voice with all your heart & all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, 3then He will restore you from captivity & have compassion on you & gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. 4Even if you have been banished to the farthest horizon He will gather you & return you from there.c5And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed & you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper & multiply more than your fathers. 6The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts & the hearts of your descendants & you will love Him with all your heart & with all your soul, so that you may live.

    7Then the LORD your God will put all these curses upon your enemies who hate you & persecute you. 8And you will again obey the voice of the LORD & follow all His commandments I am giving you today. 9So the LORD your God will make you abound in all the work of your hands & in the fruit of your womb, the offspring of your livestock & the produce of your land. Indeed, the LORD will again delight in your goodness, as He delighted in that of your fathers, 10if you obey the LORD your God by keeping His commandments & statutes that are written in this Book of the Law & if you turn to Him with all your heart & with all your soul.

    11For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us & proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 13And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it for us & proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 14But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth & in your heart,f so that you may obey it.15See, I have set before you today life & goodness, as well as death & calamity. 16For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways & to keep His commandments, statutes & ordinances, so that you may live & increase & the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.17But if your heart turns away & you do not listen, but are drawn away to bow down to other gods & worship them, 18I declare to you today that you will surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.19I call heaven & earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life & death, blessing & cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you & your descendants may live, 20and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him & hold fast to Him. For He is your life, & He will prolong your life in the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.”
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 29, 2020
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    On this topic, I go to Job.

    *Job 1:6-12,20-21*

    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

    Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

    *Job 2:1-10*

    Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life. But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes. Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.” But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

    *Job 19:25-27*

    For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!

    *Job 42:1-6,10-11*

    Then Job answered the Lord and said: “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. ‘Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me.’ I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”

    And the Lord restored the fortunes of Job, when he had prayed for his friends. And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before. Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold.
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 29, 2020
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    *Luke 13:1-9*

    There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

    And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”