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How does this apply today?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TexasSky, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Realizing that in context the Pharisees and scribes have just fussed at Christ because His followers had not followed a "church tradition" that was being taught as Godly-given-law.... and that this is Christ's response - How does that apply today?

    KJV Matthew 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    RSV it is 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: 8 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'"

    Mark phrases it this way.

    KJV Chapter 7: 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

    vs 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    RSV 7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' 8 You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men."....

    v13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition which you hand on. And many such things you do."
  2. MikeinGhana

    MikeinGhana New Member

    Oct 14, 2005
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    Some people would rather not obey the clearly revealed word of God amd hold to their man made ideals. For some it is too simple to trust that God has done it all for us. We have been set at liberty from the gruelling nburden of the law. Made free to have a free conscience to obet the Word as the Spirit leads us.

    I teach a lesson on culture versus Christianity because I am a foreign missionary using this very passage. When culture conflicts with the Bible culture must take a back seat. If it does not conflict with scripture, the missionary must not condemn it.
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    May 14, 2001
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    There is the apostolic Tradition which has now been codified in the NT writings.

    KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

    Which was to be received as apostolic and authoritative:

    KJV 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

  4. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest


    I agree that is one way the verse applies.

    However, I think the verse goes deeper than that.

    There are things we label as sinful that the bible does not. We do this because someone decided if it was a weakness to them, it must be a sin. (The Pharisees declared it was a sin not to wash your hands. That isn't scripture, its man made, but it is taught as of God. Baptists taught dancing was sinful. That isn't scripture, its man made, but it is taught as of God.)

    There are other times we "extend" the meaning of scripture. "If the bible says keep the sabbath Holy we shouldn't work. Saving a life is work. You shouldn't save lives on the sabbath." Is how the Pharasees did it. We do it in things like, "The bible says though shalt not commit adultry, since drinking is stupid, and unwise, and makes me want to commit adultry, drinking is a sin." The bible doesn't call drinking a sin. It calls adultry a sin.

    We "short cut" it all.

    If this leads ME into temptation - it is sinful to everyone.

    That isn't biblical.

    God spelled out sin clearly. He didn't need our help.

    Churches do it. "I don't see where they had a piano or a guitar in the early church. If that church uses one they are sinning."

    Again - not scripture.
    Tradition of men being presented as law of God.
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2005
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    It applies, at least in one way, as follows. It is possible to worship God in vain. You can't just do whatever is right in your own mind, since we are prone to deception.

    The only way to be sure we are not worshipping in vain, is to worship only in ways that are supported by scripture.

    It is not enought that scripture does not "prohibit" a certain manner of worship. That is not a good standard. The standard should be that the manner of worship is supported by scripture.

    peace to you [​IMG]
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Nov 12, 2000
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    I think there are 2 major parts of this passage that really applies to today:

    1. 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

    This refers to hypocrites who teach one thing and then live another. Their worship is external and shallow, as their hearts curse God.

    2. teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    This refers to the fact that they teach the wisdom of man, and not the wisdom of God.

    Many people today do the same thing...verily, I would even venture to say that probably everyone has been guilty of both sins at one point or another in their lives.

    Joseph Botwinick
  7. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Aug 12, 2005
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    The traditions of men are often loosely based on Scriptures. The Pharisees definitely made the Word of God of none effect through their traditions related to the Sabbath. They started with standards by which to guarantee following the law. Eventually these standards became their law. Along with the standards eventually came loopholes or exceptions that actually would be against the original law, but didn't really violate the standards.

    For example, this is what the Pharisees did to the Sabbath law. I don't remember all where I got this.
    The Sabbath law: don't work on the Sabbath--it is the Lord's day.
    The Pharisees eventually came up with a scheme whereby "working" implied leaving your house. Therefore, you had to stay inside your house also. This standard became a burden and sometimes was infeasible for emergencies; therefore, they could redefine what your "house" was. If you dug up some dirt from inside your walls and spread it outside, you could go outside the walls of your house without "leaving" your house, because you were still on your own "floor."
    Another standard was that working meant "breaking a sweat" or traveling long distances; therefore, a distance standard was set. However, sometimes it was necessary to travel longer than this distance; therefore, exceptions had to be made to exempt someone from the distance standard. One of them was retrieving lost property. If you knew where your property was, you could travel the distance necessary to retrieve it.
    If you then wanted to travel a long distance for other reasons, you could use the lost property as an excuse to go where you want to go. Once you "retrieve" your property, you could proceed to toss it ahead of you again. Hey! Now, you can go again to retrieve your property. Repeat until you get to the place you wanted to go that was otherwise too far to travel, which would then be considered "work."
    Hence, this makes the Sabbath law of none effect by creating overbearing standards, then loopholes which would nullify the sanctity of the Sabbath itself and allow you to "work" on the Sabbath.

    Although I would say that many Christians today act just like the Pharisees do with regards to the "Sabbath." Sunday is not the Sabbath anyway. Saturday is. Also, there were other Sabbath days in the Law with regard to certain fiests, such as Passover. Why is it that you are not allowed to buy groceries on Sunday. Is buying groceries work? Yet, there are many churchgoers who wouldn't think twice about going to restaurants after church on Sunday. Why encourage others to work for you on the "Sabbath" if you are against it? Why is it wrong to play a relaxing but invigorating game of tennis on the "Sabbath," yet it's not wrong to pack people's schedules full of church-related activities on Sundays, such as "Sunday School", morning worship service, cooking and serving afternoon church dinners in the afternoon, afternoon canvasing, evening choir practice before the service, Sunday evening service, etc. etc. Often Saturday (the actual Sabbath?) becomes our day of rest with a two-day weekend, and Sunday becomes one of the busiest days of the week yet we're forced to try to relax in between activities, because Sunday is the day of rest.
    This is just me rambling about my perceived Phariseeism in the modern church. [​IMG]