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Featured Humans Do Not Generate Their Own Faith

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Aug 23, 2020.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God does not look upon man and consider man to have had his own faith so that God can consider a man righteous.
    If God did, God would be a liar.

    Job 41:11 Who has first given to me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine.
     
    #1 AustinC, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!
    Matthew 8:10

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Job 40:6-14 Then the Lordanswered Job out of the whirlwind and said: “Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right? Have you an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his? “Adorn yourself with majesty and dignity; clothe yourself with glory and splendor. Pour out the overflowings of your anger, and look on everyone who is proud and abase him. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low and tread down the wicked where they stand. Hide them all in the dust together; bind their faces in the world below. Then will I also acknowledge to you that your own right hand can save you.
     
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  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Interesting thought, Austin,
    We would not know of God unless he revealed himself to us.
    Therefore the foundation of faith rests in his revelation of himself to humankind, without which we would forever have been blinded.

    The definition of faith is simple.
    FAITH - a complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

    Hebrews 11:1-6 NASB
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.​

    Faith is but one response to knowing the revealed God.

    Rob
     
  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Amen, Austin.

    To me, we as His children are shown to be justified by faith...
    That is what Romans 4 and Romans 5 are developing;

    That those who have been justified by His grace and by the Lord Jesus' blood, the Lord credits that faith as righteousness.
    We then have the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to us on account of that faith...

    But here's what I see when I start looking for who has true faith:

    " Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
    2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith."
    ( 2 Thessalonians 3:1-2 ).

    There have been many threads on this board, even in my short time here, that have dealt with Scripture that plainly declares where faith actually comes from.
    Yet it seems that certain people, both on this forum and in the world at large, go on in their belief ( and even in their teachings ) that mankind can somehow contribute something, i.e their faith, to the whole process of being saved.

    Unfortunately, they are overlooking the fact that true faith is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ), authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and is the evidence of God's work in a person ( Hebrews 11:1 ).
    In reality, we as men do not approach God on our own...
    Despite our best efforts ( which He declares as filthy rags ), He has provided everything that pertains to life and godliness through His power, not our own ( 2 Peter 1:3 ) through His mercy...

    In other words, God chooses us and causes us to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ).
    We were never able to work anything up to His standard in our stubbornness.

    We as rebellious sinners do not bring anything to the table when it comes to God saving us.
    We are blind, deaf, naked and poor with respect to our contributions ( Revelation 3:17 ), and entirely dependent upon the Lord for every good thing ( John 3:27, James 1:17 ).

    Perfect faith, the kind that endures to the end, is not and never will be something that we as rebellious sinners can ever contribute.
    Because it is "of" Christ ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16-20, Galatians 3:22 ), it only comes to those that are saved ( His elect ), and is declared to be the faith of God's elect ( Titus 1:1 ).

    In the passage above from 2 Thessalonians 3, this faith is not something that all men have.
    Therefore, what a person does not have, they cannot contribute.
    It is God's contribution, a growing gift that His people will then use ( and have used, see Hebrews 11 ) to do many things.

    Because of this, God will get all the glory in the Judgment, because everything good comes from Him and we have absolutely nothing to stand on as the objects of that grace, except His mercy and kindness towards us ( Romans 9:14-18, Titus 3:5-6 ).



    The reason that the Lord Jesus marveled at some people's faith?
    Because it is such a rare gift among men...
    Even among God's own covenant people of Israel.

    Only the saved have it, and only the saved will ever have it.:Notworthy
     
    #5 Dave G, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Amen Dave
     
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    So people can believe in the Quran and not the bible ?
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

    Free gift unto justification of life to all men must be received. It’s not “universalism” unless irresistible grace supplants the biblical requirement to receive. (Rom. 5:11-18; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)
     
  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
    44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
    46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
    47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God."
    ( John 8:43-47 ).

    People hear ( hearken to, listen intently to and believe by faith ) God's words because they are "of God", Barry.

    The Quran is not a spiritual book, like the Bible is.
    It's words are not spirit, nor are they life ( John 6:63 ).
    It does not contain the very words of God, it contains man's words.

    The Bible is also intended for a specific audience:

    " Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
    7 but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
    8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
    11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
    ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ).

    Unlike other books whose words are not God's words, the Bible is a special book...
    And unbelievers, those who do not have the Holy Ghost residing in them and teaching them ( 1 John 2:20-27 ), cannot understand it, much less believe its contents.:(
     
    #9 Dave G, Aug 23, 2020
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  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

    27. Free gift unto justification of life to all men must be received. It’s not “universalism” unless irresistible grace supplants the biblical requirement to receive. (Rom. 5:11-18; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)
     
  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    According to God's word, why do some people believe on Christ and others not believe on Christ, Barry?

    Why do some fall away, and others bear fruit...
    Some 30, some 60 and some an hundred fold ( Matthew 13 )?
     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Whats your point here ?
     
  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Read the text and tell me what you see.
     
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Acts 13 is just one great example . They refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved . In one instance the Jews choose to put it from themselves . The Gentiles in Acts 13 choose themselves to accept the message .
     
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    Now why do some believe and others choose not to believe?
     
  16. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Faith is required of men in order for them to be saved.
     
  17. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Faith is a gift to the strict Calvinist.
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Jesus gives a great analogy which I believe explains Acts 13 . If you believe your not sick , you won't seek a Physician.
     
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a "Calvinist".
    I read the Bible, and this is what comes out.

    No help from men, Sai.;)
     
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  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which is silly . God commands everyone to believe the Gospel and withholds the very thing necessary for one to believe. Wake up Augustinists !
     
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