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Featured If God Is A Spirit Only, What Image Is Man's?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Makes you wonder what image was man created after when he was done in His image, doesn't it? That should give you pause.

    Did you know that men had seen God in the O.T. ? Jesus said that it wasn't the Father they had seen

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. KJV

    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV

    Jesus did say that the scriptures & Moses testify of Him & Jesus said Abraham had seen Him.

    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life..... 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? ~ KJV

    John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. ~ KJV

    I believe that day was in Genesis 18:1 when Abraham entreated the Lord & His companions to stay & eat & drink with him because that was the day He told him Sara would have a son, but His other appearance to Abraham was Genesis 17:1.

    Also the Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24 & Jacob wrestled with the Lord face to face & lived in Genesis 32:24-30.

    Jesus told His disciples that one day He will not need to mediate between them & the Father for in that day, they will ask Him directly as they will see the Father plainly.

    John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. ~ KJV

    So when I read the creation of man account being how man was asked to be created in "our" image & after "our likeness". The Father has a celestial body as Jesus did before His incarnation so that when the Father permits with the Spirit of God in compliance to the Father's will in agreeing to the Son's request, man was created in the His image as created by the One God.

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. KJV

    I believe God is a Spirit is Jesus referring to God's omnipresence to the Samaritan woman at the well in answering her question as to where to go to worship God the Father at; the Temple at Jerusalem or the mountains as her people does. Jesus was conveying the new reality that is come where believers do not need to go to a place to worship God the Father at but they can worship Him anywhere in spirit & in truth. Jesus was not saying that God is only a Spirit, but conveying that God will no longer be confined to a place to be worshiped at if you read in context for why Jesus said that.

    John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Did you know that "elohiym" is the plural form of God in Hebrew? As the angelic terms seraphim & cherubim are plural to seraph & cherub as singular, so is elohiym is plural of ''elowahh' ; "gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;... "

    Makes one needing the wisdom of the Lord to understand this, but there are 3 Witnesses as in 3 Persons in the One God..

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.~ KJV
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    You're either watching too much Kenneth Copeland or reading Mormon literature.

    Elohim is the plural form of elowahh, the root of which is ALH, meaning "to swear," and describes one that stands in a covenant relationship ratified by an oath. Strong's #433 - אֱלֹהַּ - Old Testament Hebrew Lexical Dictionary - StudyLight.org .

    So man was made plural, male and female, and they are made to live and work together in a covenant relationship ratified by an oath, iow, marriage.

    God, one God, three Persons. Man, one flesh, two persons. (Three if you count the Spirit of God)
    The Son and the Spirit proceed from the Father. The wo man was taken from man, but that is not what is meant by one flesh.

    They did not become one flesh until the ceremony and the pronouncement of the oath to ratify their covenant relationship. God brought the woman to the man, and in the company of God and witnesses the man entered into covenant with the woman, and the woman got her name, from the oath:

    "This now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man."
    There is the image of the invisible God.
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    "celestial body" :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
     
  4. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Neither.

    Elohiym is referring to plurality within the One God. That is the point of reference.

    The site from your link is goes further into the words that make up the singular word for God.

    I am not sure why it deviates to the creation of man & woman below when Elohiym is referring to the plurality within the One God.

    Can't address the above quote but below I can by the scripture.

    For clarity sake since there are believers that believe God is invisible, scripture is referring to God as not being presently seen. We know this because scripture refer to the King Jesus as invisible also.

    1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. ~ KJV

    So when we read this reference;

    Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: ~ KJV

    That testifies that the Father has an image too, but presently not seen as He is in Heaven.
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The site is only the definition and etymology of the singular "elowahh." I expounded upon the creation of man in the image of Elohim to counter your eisegesis.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Image has n othing to do with how Goid looks or His size, asa refers to the qualities that he has that He gave to us, as in will, mind, desires, etc!
     
  7. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    You will have to do it again because I did not see that counter in your prior post, Brother Aaron. To me, you went off track in delving in the root of the singular Hebrew word for God to make a point about marriage but that is not the whole meaning of that term, right? That is just part of it.

    You have to apply the whole meaning of that Hebrew word for God for what I was addressing the plural meaning of God for.... to testify of the Triune God as why there is a plurality within the One God & that the Father & the Son has an image They both share for God to create man after His image for the performance of this creation as the One God.

    It takes two or three witnesses to establish a testimony among men & that is how the Triune God established a word in creating man in His image.

    That is how God judges anyone when His word forbids any one person for condemning another to death in Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15. This is carried over in the N.T. as well in Matthew 18:16 & 2 Corinthians 13:1 & 1 Timothy 5:19

    So as God requires men to do, so does God do in judging any one as well as establishing a word in creation by way of the Son.
     
  8. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Then why is it written that we were created after His image? Genesis 1:26-27

    Why is it that Jesus was the God Abraham had seen in John 8:56-59 as He ate & drank with Abraham in Genesis 18:1-8 ?

    Jesus had a celestial body before His incarnation. Therefore the Father has One too & yet still They are One along with the Spirit.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Father and the Spirit have no physical body, just Jesus has one!
     
  10. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Then when the request was made for the creation of man.. why was the request to make man in the "our" image? Genesis 1:26

    And yet when performing the act of creation, it was as the One God as creating man in His image in Genesis 1:27 ?

    Why did Jesus say we will see the Father one day where we will not need the Son to ask Him for us?

    John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. KJV

    Why did Jesus say no man has seen the Father but Jesus has seen the Father?

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. KJV

    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV

    Something to ask Him about.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    *sigh*

    One more time:

    Elohim is plural. Man is plural. The persons of Elohim stand in covenant relationship ratified by an oath. Male and Female stand in covenant relationship ratified by an oath. There is the image of God.

    Not appearance. God does not have a body. The plurality of Elohim is reflected in the creation of man as male and female to stand in covenant relationship, iow, marriage.

    It's really very simple if you stick to the text and don't try to insert your imagination.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I thank you for your patience in trying to clarify your point of view.

    I disagree. Elohyim is referring to the One God being plural. Man is not plural.. Man is singular. The Hebrew word for man is 'adam. It is singular as man or human being or person; not peopl nor plural any sense of that word..

    The persons of Elohim stand in covenant relationship ratified by an oath. Male and Female stand in covenant relationship ratified by an oath. There is the image of God.

    Well, the irony is that the request to make man in "our" image & after "our" likeness was before man was created.

    And since man was created first & Genesis 2:4-25 was the rehashing of the 6th day but in detail for when woman was created a short while afterwards on that 6th day, I would have to say you need to reconsider that line of thought with Him, because man was singular for a while while looking for his helpmeet before woman was created.

    Thanks for clarifying where you were coming from, but I agree to disagree.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Yes. Man is a plural entity. Male and Female made He them, for the purpose of uniting in covenant and becoming one flesh. Matthew 19:5

    "Ye are gods (elohim)." Psalm 82. This is spoken to the rulers of the nations. Again, the noun is derived from the root meaning "to swear." In this context, an oath of office, authority, and denotes those who stand in a covenant relationship. So, Elohim is not merely the plurality of the Trinity.

    Anyway, you are obviously better informed in your own eyes, so it's no use belaboring the point.
     
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Hark this is for you... What image is man?... Adam!... Fallen Adam!... Almost forgot scripture... Brother Glen:)

    Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
     
  15. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Man is not a plural entity until he is married to a woman. Male is separate from female to count each as referring to them until God joins them as one flesh in that covenant of marriage. Genesis 2:4-25 is the sixth day in detail whereby man was created first, hence singular, while looking for his helpmeet. That is a period of time that addresses man as singular before the woman was created out of man in performing the first marriage where they were as one flesh.

    I believe when elohyim is used in Hebrew, it is addressing God in scripture..

    I believe when 'adam is used in Hebrew, it is addressing singular man.

    I believe elohyim in Psalm 82:6-7 is defined by how it is used in the verse since elohyim has been used elsewhere in scripture to refer to false gods.

    Since Adam is the "son of God" to refer to his godly lineage of Seth that lived their relationship on earth with God in pleasing God, we may see with His help why "sons of God" is a reference to Israel's family tree in scripture as Psalm 82:6 addresses them as children of the most high.

    Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. KJV.

    Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. KJV

    Addressing the godly people in verse 6 is why elohyim is used, but in spite of that, they shall die for the iniquity mentioned earlier in the chapter for judging unjustly in accepting the persons of the wicked & not how God would actually judge.

    I can see why you had to clarify your post since you were confusing the issue by applying elohyim with man in marriage.

    My point of reference of elohyim in Hebrew scripture was to testify to the plurality within the One God mentioned as God in English in scripture for proving the truth about the OP that the Father has an image as the Son did for why singular man was requested to be made in "our" image" & after "our" likeness so that when God the Father agreed with the Word of God's request, man was made in His image with the compliance of the Holy Spirit as well by the One God.

    Thank you for sharing anyway.
     
  16. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. KJV.

    Adam was made after the image of God for why the godly lineage of Seth was considered after the likeness of Adam as referring to Israel's family tree as Israel was the sons of God before Jesus came where now Christians are the sons of God..

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. KJV

    The image of God is man, but when the request was made to create man in "our" image" and after "our" likeness testifies to the plurality of the One God before the One God actually created man in His image & in His likeness.

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. KJV

    Thank you for sharing, May God cause the increase.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  18. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing.

    Again, God the Father has a body & the Word of God did also before His incarnation for why the request was made to make man in "our" image & after "our" likeness so that when the One God made man, it was done as the One God in His image.

    Jews tried to explain away Genesis 1:26-27 by offering several explanations; one God spoke to the nature or the elements and 2 God spoke to the angels.

    To the elements or nature, there is no image of God in the elements or nature to fashion after the image of God with God.

    In regards to the angels.... God does not need any help from the angels because His word did say that God alone created man in His image.

    Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? 13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? KJV

    Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. KJV

    Just clarifying how the Jews strain at the gnat in denying the plurality within the One God. They cannot explain Genesis 1:26 at all even though God created man in His image & after His likeness and nothing else's.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Does the Holy Spirit have a body? The Word, the Son of God, is how God has a body, John 1:18, Colossians 1:15, Genesis 3:8. ". . . the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: . . ."

    The Son of God is the visable of the invisible omnipresent God. Hebrews 1:3, ". . . being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, . . ." God the Father is the true God, John 17:3. The Son is the true light, John 1:9. They are the one LORD God. John 10:30. John 14:9, ". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; . . ."
     
  20. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    No. The Holy Spirit being the Spirit of the Father when Jesus was on earth before His ascension ; Matthew 10:20 & now the Spirit of Christ per Romans 8:9 does not have a body nor need one either. When God the Father agreed with the Son to make man in "our" image" and after "our" likeness is when the Spirit of God did so in compliance to the father's will & the Son's request..

    Who is Jesus having the express image of His Person? The Father's. So not invisible as if He cannot be seen having no body but just not presently seen.

    Hebrews 1:3, ". . . being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, . . ."

    How do you apply these verses below regarding the Son declaring He has seen the Father?

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. KJV

    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. ~ KJV

    I submit to you that "invisible" in scripture is just referring to not presently seen because invisible was also applied to Jesus Christ in Heaven, our future King.

    1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. ~ KJV

    So there are scripture testifying to God the Father that can be seen in Heaven.
     
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