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Rev. 9:10: Historical Facts vs. Futurist Fiction

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    • Rev. 9:10 "They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months."

      Historical fact: the length of time that Jerusalem was under siege by the Roman armies was 5 months. From April to August. Also, the Romans used ballistic weapons that were nicknamed "stingers"and had a specific ballistic weapon called a Scorpion.

    • One can verify this with Josephus and Ussher (both as to the terminology and the dates).
      Once again, it can be proven that the entire purpose of Revelation has been misconstrued to accommodate a futurist, not a historical fulfillment. It was certainly future fulfillment as far as John's readers were concerned, but it is long past from our perspective.
     
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so you are saying these were not literal scorpions? :Wink
     
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  3. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    How telling that you use that one verse to try to prove your view but was it also the case that the Roman armies did not kill anyone during that entire period with any of those ballistic weapons? If not, you are misusing the passage because the passage specifically says that the locusts spoken of in Revelation 9 were not to kill anyone:

    Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

    3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

    6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

    8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

    9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

    10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
     
    #3 Scripture More Accurately, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  4. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Yepper.
     
  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    "No, thanks. Feel free to start another thread to set forth your views about those passages."

    For those who do not know, the quoted response if from SMA himself.

    I think the topic is a worthy one to discuss with others. I just chose a single verse because sometimes it is helpful to focus on details. But one can also go through much of these chapters and see abundant reference to the country of Israel and the time of their 1st century downfall.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    And all of Revelation has already been fulfilled?
     
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  7. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Well, what the Seven Thunders uttered may yet be future, I don't know. And we are still alive, so we have yet to come into His presence.
     
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  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like a chopper squadron to me.
     
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  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...neither is a whore decked out in priests' garments riding a red dragon with seven heads and ten horns...;)
     
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What about His Second Coming, with all of the saved bodi;y resurrected?
     
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  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Tom, what you see as fiction, I see as John with his limited knowledge {1st Cent. AD) base describing what he is shown.
     
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  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Right. A rhetorical question: How would John have described a squadron of choppers, with their pilots in full gear visible, using tail weapons? And what does a squadron of choppers sound like?
     
  13. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    And what does "soon" and "shortly" and "I come quickly" mean? Wait ... I know the answer to that.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    What does "It hasn't yet happened" mean ?
     
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  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I guess you did not pick up on the fact that my three words or phrases are actually in the Book of Revelation. "It hasn't yet happened" is not.
     
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  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    If it hasn't yet happened, it hasn't yet happened. "Soon", etc. become moot if it hasn't yet happened.
     
  17. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I don't know. I never said it as choppers.
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    So, not literally locusts.
     
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  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    He wouldn't know a machine when he saw one?
     
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  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Not any more than I'd know an anti-gravity machine if I saw one, or my great-grandpa, a Civil war vet, would've known what a stealth bomber was if he'd seen one.
     
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