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Speaking in Tongues: The Need for Caution

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Deadworm, Jul 26, 2018.

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  1. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    This thread might seem to contradict my new thread "Babbling against Speaking in Tongues," but it is needed for critical balance. I was raised in the first Pentecostal church to be established in Canada after the Azusa Street Revival of 1906 that gave birth to international Pentecostalism. My lifelong experiences and observations have taught me that 90% of Pentecostal manifestations are "of the flesh." But the 10% that is authentic is so precious, so life-changing that it makes endurance of the false manifestations worthwhile to get to the real thing that can be absolutely electrifying. My other thread will demonstrate the biblical basis for tongues and this thread will focus on the reasons for skepticism. If you stick with this thread, though, I will guide you through the safe method for having a life-changing positive experience of glossolalia, just as I have.

    (1) My first point is this: Any provision of grace or authentic experience of the Spirit is counterfeited by dark forces. Historically, xenoglossy has actually proved to be one sign of demonic possession for the Catholic exorcist. In modern times, the problem is our need for instant gratification and our unwillingness to endure the emotional roller coaster ride of a lengthy period of spiritual longing and intercession. So Pentecostal leaders typically urge seekers to "just speak it out and then the Spirit will take over." The problem with this prompting is that it is all too easy to erupt in uninspired gibberish. Manifestations that begin in the flesh usually stay in the flesh. As a boy, I discovered this by direct experience and it was one factor that created a severe faith crisis. Yes, my false tongues gave me a powerful high, but the automatic second-guessing I experienced afterwards could be tormenting and made me doubt all forms of inner witness of the Holy
    Spirit. Only later at age 16 did I discover that when the real thing is experienced, it is self-authenticating and beyond doubt and, in my case, was by far my most awesome life-changing experience ever. In fact, if I had no had this glossolalic experience on that fateful Tuesday night, I doubt I'd even be a Christian today because I was so wracked by doubts about biblical errors and contradictions and about phony spiritual manifestations.
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The bilbical gift of tongues was in a real language, not "spirit prayer language", and was used to fulfill OT prophecies, and also was used to demonstrate that Samiritans and Gentiles were now saved by Jesus. Not needed for today!
     
  3. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    I have already decisively refuted your claim and you have no answer to my detailed refutation. Note especially that the Greek "glossai," when applied to ecstatic speech (e. g. at the Oracle of Delphi) does NOT refer to coherent human languages, but rather to incoherent gibberish that requires an interpretation. Documentation for the secular evidence is provide by the long scholarly article on the Greek word "glossai" in Kittel's voluminous, multi-volume work, "The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." You obviously have not consulted this well respected scholarly source.
     
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Explain the Spiritual gift of Interpretation of tongues!
     
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  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Really? What detailed refutation is that?
     
  6. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    From my early teen years in a huge Pentecostal church, I was plagued by doubts and was desperate to hear an authentic word from the Lord. Our Communion service was often highlighted by a message in tongues and its interpretation. At the onset of the tongues, my reaction was instantaneous: either I was moved to tears with awe, wonder, and excitement or I froze as if confronted by a cobra! Sadly, this negative reaction was far more common. In retrospect, I now recognize that God had given me the gift of discernment.

    The negatively discerned "messages" were typically exhortations allegedly from Jesus incorporating His words in the Gospels that complemented the sermon without adding any significant insights. They were theological sound, but innocuous and were not inspired by Christ. These interpretations of tongues were typically given by the pastor or the district superintendent. This bothered me because I didn't want to be sitting in judgment on these men of authority when I was myself plagued by doubts. The positively discerned messages were typically hard-hitting like some of the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation 2-3. They were often delivered by uneducated vessels, yet they were expressed in very eloquent language and were profound in their insight.
     
  7. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    During the time of the Book of Acts, the Holy spirit has some in the local assembly with the gift to prophesy from Him unto htem, to encourage/edify/build up, and also had some gifyed to give the message of the unknown langauge, but was never used as a means to give forth scriptures and doctrines.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The argument, "It was so wonderful; how can it be wrong?" is no better an argument in favour of 'tongues' than it is for adultery.
     
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It would appear that his Harvard education openned him upo to theology that was not supported in the scriptures, as seen by his take on Church of rome and now this!
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    So, now you are saying there is an unknown language. But wait, The Bible plainly says that tongues with interpretation is equal to prophecy. You just said the unknown language could not do that.
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Tongue with its message revealed to the local church by the gift to interprete made it equal to someone speaking forth in natural languahe the message from God.
     
  13. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    Martin Marprelate: The argument, "It was so wonderful; how can it be wrong?" is no better an argument in favour of 'tongues' than it is for adultery."

    A naïve comment from someone who has never had the experience! The experience made me fall in love with Jesus like no experience before or since has been able to do. As I said, it filled me with wave after wave of liquid love, each more electric than the last, so powerful that I feared it might kill me! It gave me the gift of "the word of knowledge," which I will document in a future thread. And it transformed my intellect from that of an ordinary student to the top-rated student in my province, a feat that was recognized publicly by the premier of my province at my high-school graduation and that provided me with financial aid for my long academic college journey. And praise God, the Spirit revealed that this recognition would happen in the immediate aftermath of the tongues experience. But most importantly, I have always been naturally skeptical and now recognize that I would probably not even be a Christian today, were it not for that experience of glossolalia at age 16. Though I haven't spoken in tongues for decades, I still draw strength and encouragement from the very memory of that experience.

    But for more on that, you need to read my other tongues thread. I have devoted this thread to all the problems that bring disrepute to speaking in tongues. As a boy, I discerned that most of our public messages in tongues were of the flesh, but a few were electrifying in their power and moved me to tears with their message. So I asked an elder why these messages weren't recorded for later discernment and meditation on their application. He replied, "Oh, your taking these messages too seriously; they're not Scripture, you know." I replied, "Either these messages come from the Risen Lord or they don't. If they don't, they should be banned; and if they do, then it is essential for us to reflect on what the Lord is telling us!" It was then I realized that, unconsciously, even Pentecostal leaders don't really believe their messages in tongues come from the Risen Lord, as they pretend. No wonder my discernment was that the overwhelming majority of them are "of the flesh."
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How can the Holy Spirit be the One to grant to you this pauline kind of spiritual knowledge, and yet you are so wrong on the doctrine Pauline Justification, and heresies of the Church of rome?
     
    #14 Yeshua1, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  15. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    I’m sure plenty of people have had similiar experiences with drugs like LSD and have “fallen more in love with God”, point in fact before I was saved I had plenty of experiences with “God” on drugs, but they were nothing more than Satanic experiences.

    Your feelings and emotions are not authoritative.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I very much doubt the Holy spirit would be the one tobe giving him his bad doctrines in certain areas, nor his spiritual pride!
     
  17. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    Jordan Kurecki,: "I’m sure plenty of people have had similiar experiences with drugs like LSD and have “fallen more in love with God”, In point in fact before I was saved I had plenty of experiences with “God” on drugs, but they were nothing more than Satanic experiences."

    First, you are pontificating from ignorance. Psychological research has demonstrated that counterfeit drug experiences have no lasting spiritually transformative impact. I know this because I used to teach a college course on Psychology and Religion.
    Second, no drug experience creates permanent delight in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ and a new deep obsession to make Him Lord and Master of one's life, like speaking in tongues often does.

    Jordan Kurecki: "Your feelings and emotions are not authoritative."

    A skeptic could with equal justification dismiss your Spirit-inspired inner witness that you are a child of God as sentimental woo woo, fueled by nothing more than warm fuzzies. I possess and deeply treasure that inner witness, but it is not even remotely as convincing or compelling as the inner witness of the Spirit that is gifted through authentic speaking in tongues.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You deny the full inspiration and historicity of the scriptures, deny Pauline Justification, and equate the Church of Rome as teaching the reak Gospel!
    None of theose theachings would qualify you to be able to claim Holy Spirit has been giving you His Illumination!
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Is that the experience of drugs or of adultery? ;)
    How do you know what experiences people on this board may have had? And why do you suppose that it is only possible to have a deep experience of God if you gabble like an idiot?
     
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  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    You'll be pleased to know that we are 90% in agreement.
     
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