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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ? 8

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Feb 18, 2023.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It ensures heaven !


    Christ's death ensures heaven for those He died for, also called the Eternal Inheritance Heb 9:15

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Listen, Christ's Death, or by means of His Death as the Surety / Mediator of His People, redeemed His People from their iniquities , transgressions, under both testaments, so that they may be called unto the obtaining of the Eternal Inheritance, which is Heaven ! Its the same as being called unto His Kingdom and Glory 1 Thess 1:12

    That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory. or

    to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ 2 Thess 2:14

    Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Also its the same Inheritance Peter writes of here 1 Pet 1:3-4

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

    And its the one Paul refers to here Gal 3:18

    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it[The Inheritance] to Abraham by promise.

    And the writer of Hebrews mentions it Heb 11:8

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Note: Many think that the Inheritance of Heb 11:8 promised to Abraham was physical land of this earth over in the middle east, but they are deceived, it was a Heavenly Inheritance as Per Heb 11:16

    16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    And all the seed shall be called unto the obtaining of it, that is, "they which are called" in Heb 9:15

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    In the original its "οἱ κεκλημένοι " the having been called ones, notice the definite article for the ones being called, its not all mankind that this call goes out to !

    This Inheritance is bequeathed upon all Christ died for, His Seed or the Seed of Abraham, and His Death secured the Inheritance unto them !
     
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  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    No condemnation upon them Christ died for !


    Did you know that its impossible for any that Christ died for, to come under God's condemnation ? In fact here is a promise for all whom Christ died, even before they believe Jn 5:24

    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Now Rom 8:1 informs us that there is no condemnation [imputed or charged]to them which are IN Christ Jesus See 2 Tim 1:9 ! And yet its also clear in scripture that there is a non imputation or a exclusion of condemnation to those for whom Christ died Rom 8:33-34

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    In other words, being condemned is offset by the fact that Christ died !

    Also for those same ones He died, He maketh intercession for at the Right Hand of God. This Intercession for them is not conditioned upon them believing in Him, but upon His dying for them !

    Those He makes intercession for, cannot come into condemnation, whether they are believing or not.

    He intercedes in their behalf if they believe or not. You see all for whom Christ died, they have already received [by imputation] redemption through His Blood and the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His Grace Eph 1:7

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    They have this regardless of their unbelief, its strictly according to the riches of His Grace,

    So they have as unbelievers, based upon redemption and grace alone Justification Rom 3:24

    24 Being justified or free from condemnation freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Yes even as unbelievers those Christ died for are Justified from all condemnation, because Christ died, He died because their condemnation was charged to Him and not them. Now that He has satisfied God's Justice, they never come into condemnation, but they shall be passed from death to life !
     
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  3. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Only believers are saved. The fearful, abominable, unbelieving, and all liars, have their part in the lake of fire.
     
  4. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    @Brightfame52 has a little hyper-Calvinism going on here. But if you are interested in knowing where people come from it's worth looking at I guess. John Owen, the high Calvinist Puritan, in one of his papers said flat out that as long as you refuse to believe Jesus could do nothing for you. Yet he did believe in a monergistic salvation and he believed that faith was a gift and was inevitable for the elect. He also believed in "irresistible" grace so I don't know how he would explain his statement either!
     
  5. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    @Brightfame52 is sounding like a universalist in his post--maybe not his intention, but it seemed that way.
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    post 62 you care to discuss ? You understand it ?
     
  7. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    It will of necessity be a short discussion, one reason being I’ve a road trip after church services, and the chief reason being a text without a context is a pretext.

    Romans 3:
    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

    V. 23 God’s righteousness is by faith on all who believe, no difference between Jew and Gentile because both are sinners, v. 24, both Jew and Gentile believers are freely justified through Christ’s redemption.

    I didn’t post all three chapters; I have to go very soon to prepare, but Romans is discussing Jews and Gentiles from the first chapter, the second chapter, and still here in the third chapter. “No difference” shows Jews and Gentiles both are lost apart from faith in Christ, which was a shock to Old Covenant Jews who were sure they were God’s elite by their descent from Abraham. Romans and Galatians proves only those who have the faith of Abraham are in fact God’s children through faith in the Messiah, the Lord Jesus, whether Jew, Gentile, male, female, slave or free. All believers are saved. The unbelievers remain lost.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I reckon you dont want to discuss it, thats fine.
     
  9. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    I just did.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    From the Biblical general atonement view you do sound like a universalist.
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I cant tell.
     
  12. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 3:

    12 ¶ Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    16 ¶ For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Saving Benefits of Christ's Death !

    Another scripture that speaks of the saving benefits of the Death of Christ is Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Now this applies to all for whom He was delivered up for. That word delivered speaks of His death as it does also here Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Where here it clearly states He was delivered up for our offences, or simply he died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3,

    Yet Rom 8:32 goes on to say in regards to them He was delivered up for " how shall he[The Father] not with him also freely give us all things?"

    Now what are these all things freely given along with Christ to them He was delivered up for ? One of those things is free Justification from all sin !

    Look back at Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Those whom sins He was delivered because of, the same was He raised because of their Justification from all the offences He was delivered up for !

    Now that is also indicated in Rom 8:32 with the words "freely give" those are the words charizomai and means:

    I.to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

    A.to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent


    B.to grant forgiveness, to pardon


    C.to give graciously, give freely, bestow

    i.to forgive


    ii. Graciously to restore one to another


    iii.to preserve for one a person in peril

    That speak to Justification, forgiveness of sins is Justification from them !

    One of the Saving Benefits that come with the Giving of Christ to those He was delivered up for, is Justification from sin and or forgiveness of sins ! 39
     
  14. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    It’s only for believers, as context proves every time.

    Were you correct, hell would not exist, yet MOST PEOPLE are going to hell.
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I see you are unable to understand what Im saying.
     
  16. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, maybe not, but I have a firm grip on what the Lord Jesus said.
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Saving Benefits of Christ's Death ! 2

    First of all to have given us Christ is to have given us Salvation, this is stated here by the aged Saint Lk 2:30-32

    30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

    31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

    32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

    Because He is Salvation, He Lightens the Gentiles !

    And so in giving us Christ, we with Him receive some fringe benefits, those things which accompany Salvation, who is Christ Heb 6:9

    9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany/joined with salvation or Christ, though we thus speak.

    Benefits of the Spiritual kind are joined with the giving of Christ, things appropriate for full Salvation !

    Lets look at 2 Pet 1-4

    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Now notice Vs 3 He hath given us [along with the giving us of Christ Rom 8:32]

    All things that pertain to Life and Godliness, through the Knowledge of Him that hath called us to Glory and virtue !
     
  18. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Yes. For believers.
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Saving Benefits of Christ's Death ! 3

    Notice in addition that these things accompany them that God has called 2 Pet 1:3

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    So with Christ being given [Rom 8:32] all things also given that pertains to their complete Salvation was given, to effect a life of Godliness which includes Spiritual Life !

    That word godliness eusebeia means:


    I.reverence, respect


    II.piety towards God, godliness

    So one of the all things that are given us along with Christ is piety or fear towards God, reverence for Him, because by nature we have it not Rom 3:18

    18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    So Christ's Death for us secures unto us a fear of God, also comes Faith or the acknowledging of the Truth Titus 1:1

    Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    There is no godliness towards God without acknowledging His Truth as it is in Christ Jesus !

    Remember we are given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness 2 Pet 1:3

    According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    Yes, the Truth is also the Gospel, and so thats given with Christ, meaning that the acknowledgement of the Truth of the Gospel shall accompany the giving of Christ, which is simply belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

    13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ's Death has gathering power !

    For it was not without reason Jesus said stated these words Jn 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    Here He promises that as an result of His being Lifted up from the Earth [meaning His Death by Crucifixion] He would draw all men to Himself, which denotes a total conversion experience ! That word draw has the same meaning or force as the words gather together here Jn 11:50-52

    50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

    This Vs 52 is stating that the effect of the One Man dying for the People in Vs 50-51, His death was in order that, He should gather together, the people or Children of God, not only of that nation, but out of all nations wherein they are scattered abroad Rev 5:9

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    But the important fact here is how they were gathered together. That word or words in the greek sunago, and means to draw together, to bring together. This bringing or drawing together in one is the purposed result of His death ! The same thing is implied in Jesus words here Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    In which He brings the Sheep together into one fold, or all the Children of God, and they all follow their One Shepherd, The Lord Jesus Christ. This gathering of the People by Shiloh was known by Faith by Jacob Gen 49:10

    The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh[Christ] come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

    So in essence Jn 12:32 is saying the same thing as Jn 11:50-52, and His dying or being lifted up is the author of the drawing or gathering together, which means conversion ! 39
     
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