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Featured The Biblical Doctrine of Election

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Apr 12, 2023.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Summary, the biblical doctrine of individual election for salvation is conditional, it occurs during our lifetime; God chooses us individually out of this world, not before the foundation of the world, when He chose Christ.

    The only way I see to reconcile Ephesians 1:4, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, with 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and John 15:19 and 1 Peter 2:9-10 and James 2:5 is to understand the phrase “He chose us in Him” as meaning He chose Christ to be His Redeemer, His Lamb of God (1 Peter 1:20) before the foundation of the world, and since you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem, God’s choice of Christ chose us corporately as a target group of His Redemption plan but not individually. Thus Paul (in Ephesians 1:4) is speaking to those who have been redeemed during their lives, and is letting them know of the many blessings they have received, the first one being the blessing that was directed toward them when God chose Christ.

    How can anyone claim we were "children of wrath" if we had received mercy before we existed? Once we are set apart in Christ we are children of God, a new creation.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is your actual argument from post #110:
    Van as I pointed out to you before you have to look at the context in which "sanctified" is used. It is clear that in this context the meaning is saved. "the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified" not that he might be. That is past tense, it is something that has happened.​

    The context of 2 Peter 2:1 is the person "sanctified" is heading to swift destruction. Thus the idea is when Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2, He sanctified, set apart under the provisions of the New Covenant in His blood, those to be saved and those never to be saved.

    "The word translated as "knowledge" refers to the specific understanding of the gospel. Nothing in the Greek or its grammar supports your claim." Thus "knowledge of the truth" refers to an accurate understanding of the gospel, contextually in Hebrews 10:26.
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Van you have just agreed with what I have been saying **"knowledge of the truth" refers to an accurate understanding of the gospel,**. They were saved and then turned away as they continue willful sin.
    Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

    Van how many times must I point out to you what **the knowledge G1922** means.

    This is the intensified Greek form epi + gnôsis,G1922 which implies "full and experiential knowledge." which as you agreed would mean **an accurate understanding of the gospel,**. So it would seem that you are finally coming to the point where you agree with what I have been trying to show you all along.
     
    #143 Silverhair, Apr 24, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning:
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    0630 GMT (Tue) / 230 am EDT (Tue) 1130 pm PDT (Mon)
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Ashford Baptist Association, (CT)
    HISTORICAL DISCOURSE

    By Rev. Charles Willett, 1874

    "The inspired word teaches that "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness," -- not believeth anything or everything, but the truth as it is in Jesus, --

    "that it is "Through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth," that men are saved.

    "Jude, therefore, as one "Set for the defense of the gospel,"

    "saw the urgent necessity of being "Rooted and built up in Him (Christ); established in the faith, as they had been taught,"

    "that they might not be "Carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the slight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

    "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."


    "We believe, therefore, in view of the teachings of these passages, and many others that might be quoted, that the essential worth of a church, an association, or a denomination, depends upon the amount of divine eternal truth that it believes, loves, advocates, defends, and practices."
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You didn't hear what you wanted to hear.
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    *2 John 1:1-2*
    The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:

    *Revelation 12:17*
    Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

    The Elect woman is the Church and all her elect children. Election is the prerogative of the King who holds the feast.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No, I did not say nor suggest they had been saved. They had been put under the New Covenant, thus acquiring the means of salvation.

    Once saved, always saved is the correct biblical doctrine.

    If we go on sinning, turning away from our knowledge of the truth of the gospel, then there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, because you rejected the only sacrifice, the Lamb of God.

    Your repeated effort to assert my understanding of the word is flawed is nonsense.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Bottom line, sanctified is sometimes used to mean set apart for other purposes than individual salvation within Christ's spiritual body.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Summary, the biblical doctrine of individual election for salvation is conditional, it occurs during our lifetime; God chooses us individually out of this world, not before the foundation of the world, when He chose Christ.

    The only way I see to reconcile Ephesians 1:4, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, with 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and John 15:19 and 1 Peter 2:9-10 and James 2:5 is to understand the phrase “He chose us in Him” as meaning He chose Christ to be His Redeemer, His Lamb of God (1 Peter 1:20) before the foundation of the world, and since you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem, God’s choice of Christ chose us corporately as a target group of His Redemption plan but not individually. Thus Paul (in Ephesians 1:4) is speaking to those who have been redeemed during their lives, and is letting them know of the many blessings they have received, the first one being the blessing that was directed toward them when God chose Christ.

    How can anyone claim we were "children of wrath" if we had received mercy before we existed? Once we are set apart in Christ we are children of God, a new creation.

    The context of 2 Peter 2:1 is the person "sanctified" is heading to swift destruction. Thus the idea is when Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2, He sanctified, set apart under the provisions of the New Covenant in His blood, those to be saved and those never to be saved.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As used in Hebrews 10:29, sanctified means set apart, but does not mean set apart into Christ, but rather set apart under the New Covenant.

    Note one action of the Holy Spirit are to provide God's message to humanity, via the inspired Word of God. This can be rejected, resisted, partially accepted or fully embraced. Not at issue.

    However, the Holy Spirit also leads those indwelt on the paths of righteousness, and we can follow or disregard that guidance.

    But when the Holy Spirit spiritually relocates us out of the domain of darkness into the Kingdom of Christ, we have no say in the matter, and no ability to resist such a divine action.

    Once saved, by God transferring us spiritually into the Kingdom of His Beloved Son, we are always saved because Christ has said He will not cast us out, John 6:37.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    This thread is closed
     
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