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The Calvinism puzzle.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Jul 30, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Most, if not merely many, non-Calvinist do not understand the Biblical foundations for Calvinism.

    Now my questions here are for only those who are now Calvinists, that were converted from non-Calvinism to Calvinism.

    What reasons would you have given, if any, for not being a Calvinist? And what Biblical truth changed your mind?

    Or simply step by step, how were you persuaded to Calvinism?
     
    #1 37818, Jul 30, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Most of my previous arguments came from Hebrews where I argued that Jesus paid for all sins, except the sin of unbelief, which I thought must be the unforgivable sin.

    I had heard the "say the prayer and raise your hand if you did" probably a thousand times. I figured that it was on humans to choose and either be blessed or be condemned for the choice you make.

    Then, I actually started reading the Bible and the Bible demanded that I address the many contradictions in my thinking. I observed the many times God chose and wrote them down. The process continued for a number of years until I could not deny the Supremacy of God in all things.
     
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  3. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    For me, the conversion to Reformed Theology (Calvinism) started when I studied the Reformation. I wanted to know what views Luther, Calvin, Knox, and the other Reformers held. This led me to Ligonier.org, where I read a lot of material from R.C. Sproul. As I came to understand the five "Solas", I realized that our salvation is entirely in God's hands. The passages about how fleshly men actually hate God really hit me. Unless men are drawn to Christ, they will not go to Him on their own.

    To be completely honest, I still have a little trouble wrapping my mind around some Calvinist doctrines, and I am not very good at defending the views. That being said, I believe the doctrines are supported by Scripture, and I will grow to understand it better.
     
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  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Experientially, I wanted nothing to do with god or religion before my salvation. Then God called me and made me an offer that I could not refuse and transformationally changed me. Thus I selected a church near my home and struggled to reconcile their excellent Wesleyan Holiness teaching (Church of God of Anderson Indiana) with my personal (hyper-monergistic) soteriological experience. Studying scripture eventually led me to 4 truths that agreed with both scripture and my personal experience:
    1. People are no darn good. (T)
    2. It isn’t about US; Like Corrie Ten Boon said “God does as He pleases and He does it right well”. (U)
    3. God just does, He doesn’t TRY and He doesn’t stop to ask permission. (I)
    4. God finishes what God starts. (P)
    I eventually discovered that there was a name for these truths that I had discovered studying Scripture in a Wesleyan Arminian church … Calvinism. I also learned that there was a Fifth point (L).

    I had never given any thought to who else Jesus died for on the cross. It always seemed enough to know that He had died for me. Who else He chose to die for always seemed more HIS BUSINESS than my business. Given the other 4 points, (L) makes sense, it just feels like “none of my business telling God whose sins to die for and whose sins to not die for”. Since the Bible implies but is never explicit (it actually offers verses supporting both sides), I still prefer to leave that one alone.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Lodic,
    [Even though I am not Calvinist] I agree with the five Solas. But I think the order should be:
    Sola Scriptura.
    Sola Gratia.
    Sola Fide.
    Sola Christus.
    Sola Deo Gloria.

    Thank you for your comment.
    The Biblical foundations for Calvinism I think are good. I agree the Scriptures.
     
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    See the errant thinking is that somehow its not entirely in Gods hands if God sovereignly chose the have man choose. That is a fallacy
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not a Calvinist any more, but am a rebel by southern heritage. So I will answer anyway.

    Why was I not, at conversion, a Calvinist? Because I was not saved in a Calvinistic church and had not considered election anything but speaking of the Body of Christ, and had not considered predestination at all.

    The reason I became a Calvinist is twofold. First, I listened (and still do) to Calvinistic preachers (e.g. John MacArthur, John Piper, Tim Keller, DA Carson). Second, I realized rgat man would never choose God except God draw man to Himself.

    The reason I abandoned Calvinism is I found its foundation lacking. Remove one thing, the rest falls apart (I do not believe a consistent Calvinist can be anything but a 5 point Calvinist affirming the doctrine of reprobation and Calvin's understanding of justice).
     
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  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I was saved at the age of 10, at a Methodist Youth Fellowship meeting, where the man came out and "had a message to share with us".

    I had no Bible or church of any kind, until my early twenties.

    A man gave me 500 sermonists on Salvation, sinners are dead, The Lord's churches, and Authority in Baptism. It all seemed right and when the Preacher turned from text to text to text and THEN said, "Here's what God says", I picked up on things rather quickly.

    Why not? The Holy Spirit had been with me as I traveled out to believe I came from a monkey, back to hearing for the first time that there was a Book called, "Genesis" and Two Testaments, in the Bible, and four Gospels...I didn't know.

    I was handed the works of C.D.Cole, then had T.P. Simmons' book assigned in Bible College.

    I saw a Billboard Ad for Lexington Baptist College and decided to "go to learn what I'd missed in Sunday School".

    Sure enough, I heard the name, "Abraham", for the first time, there, etc.

    The Lord called me to preach and I've done supply preaching and Vacation Bible Schools for the kids.

    We are currently IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS through the Good News Club.

    I teach devotion on Sunday Mornings and have "a work", online,
    and discuss the Index to Revelation, here: at WordPress.com

    The regular WordPress, with 600+blogs, and 612 followers, is here Aware of The Godhead

    Enter your email address and receive notifications of new posts by email & be Aware of The GODHEAD. It is mostly John Gill adapted for the internet and the modern reader.

    To me, the works of these men, A.W. Pink, James Petigru Boyce, etc., and those of my Teachers at school and Preacher friends and, believe it or not, "The BIBLE", is what I consider I am, as opposed to, "A Calvinist", although, I get it.

    I put in those 600+ blog posts "What I Believe" and it is a work in progress.

    I consider my participation on Forums a ministry.
    "Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few: pray ye, therefore, the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth laborers into his harvest."
    Luke 10:2

    No "puzzle".

    No reason to leave "Calvinism", since I first heard it.

    King James Bible
    "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go?
    thou hast the words of eternal life."
    John 6:68

    No reason to leave The Lord's Kind of Church, where I first heard it.

    My current church home, Bryan Station Baptist Church, was founded in 1786 and still believes the same as it has through 40-something Presidents (Kentucky was not yet a state and John Handcock was President).

    We are Missionary and have started several works throughout the states, including my first home church, and around the World.
    Messages by my first Pastor, if you want to know "how I cut my teeth"

    Speaker: Bill DeRossitt

    Will you be His Disciple

    Have we Left our First Love

    Do we Hunger for God

    Message by my current Pastor, i.e., Sound and Balanced, Informative, and Compassionate:

    0.0.10 ALARM #22:
    “GIVE ME A GOOD REASON YOU WANT TO GO TO HELL” or BOW YOUR HEAD!


    His message; Pastor Brent Spears: "A Passion For Souls" (Proverbs 11:30)
    "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he that winneth souls is wise."

    We might as well take a loaded gun to people’s heads.

    begin at 24:00 minute mark.

    “Decisional Regeneration”

    Can you be Eternally Saved by just “deciding to”, signing a Commitment Card, or even “Praying”?

    Can anyone, “Make a Decision” for Christ??
    or “Make Jesus your ‘Lord'”?

    You may think you have done some of these things and yet still do not “feel” saved.

    Well, it may not be “Well with your soul”, so BE SURE.

    YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

    Go to my Facebook page to view the video:

    See “June 12th”

    登录或注册即可查看 "A Passion For Souls" (Proverbs 11:30)

    I am a "225-point" "Calvinist, since I believe there are many more points to God's Eternal Work of Salvation, thus the blog site, and yes, Those Points, and the rest of The Bible all Harmonize, Supernaturally.

    At: Aware of The Godhead:
    My Subject is ETERNAL LIFE,
    as PROMISED and
    REVEALED to MANKIND,
    by The ETERNAL GODHEAD,
    God The Father,
    God The Son &
    God The Holy Spirit,
    in Their ETERNAL
    WORD of GOD,
    The HOLY BIBLE.

    AWARE of The GODHEAD
    is an EXALTATION of
    The One and Only
    True and Living
    GOD of THE BIBLE,
    in order for you
    to Become:
    AWARE of The GODHEAD,
    from Eternity Past
    to Eternity Future,
    IN THE BIBLE.

    From ETERNITY PAST,
    ALMIGHTY GOD
    WAS PLANNING
    The ACTS of CREATION
    and
    THE PLAN of SALVATION.

    The Entire THEME
    of The BIBLE is JESUS CHRIST
    and
    The BIBLE is Written to Show:

    The ACTIVITY of ALMIGHTY GOD
    in the ETERNAL
    SALVATION of the SOUL.

    The ETERNAL
    SALVATION of the SOUL
    is The ACTIVITY
    of ALMIGHTY GOD
    &
    GOD HAS SAVED SOULS
    through "THE WAY",
    THE SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST
    in the SAME WAY;
    from the fall of the first man,
    and GOD WILL SAVE SOULS
    through "THE WAY",
    THE SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST,
    Until Jesus Comes Again.

    GOD SAVES SOULS, NOW,
    And GOD WILL SAVE SOULS
    in the SAME WAY;
    Until the End of the World,
    at the Second Coming of Christ,
    through
    "THE WAY", JESUS CHRIST.

    The Eternal
    Salvation of the Soul
    is the FULFILLMENT
    of an Agreed Upon
    and
    Covenanted Activity
    of Almighty God,
    as it was a Covenant Compact
    from Eternity Past,

    Among and Between
    The GODHEAD;
    GOD the FATHER,
    JESUS, GOD The SON
    and
    GOD The HOLY SPIRIT;
    in which Each Divine Person
    of The Eternal Godhead
    Agreed to take His Part
    in the Administration
    of the Gift
    of man’s Eternal Salvation,
    AS SHOWN IN THE BIBLE
    and
    by THE GRACE OF GOD
    UPON HIS CHILDREN,
    throughout Recorded Time.

    I go with The Bible and John Gill's understanding of Reprobation, but again, we are Missionary.

    Local, Missionary, Landmark. Baptist History Homepage.


    Baptist History Homepage


    LANDMARKISM

    "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set." Proverbs 22:28

    "Truly the old landmark once stood, and having fallen, it was deemed proper to reset it."
    (The Baptist Encyclopedia, 1881, p. 868.)

    "[T]here are many elements in Baptist history which bear an obvious and direct relationship to the tenets of the Landmark system and which clearly demonstrate that the architects of the movement, 'the Great Triumvirate,' were building on a foundation in Baptist life which was already laid." - LeRoy B. Hogue, "The Antecedents of Landmarkism".

    Baptist History Notebook
    By Berlin Hisel
    Waldensian Confessions of Faith
    Waldenses Confession of 1120


    I'm certainly not interested in "leaving", I am more, unashamedly, included to point folks my way.

    I work with Homeless folks every day, in and out of my home,
    and I ask them, "Do you think Jesus will Come Back today?"
     
    #8 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  9. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    Ironically in Protestantism the “five solas” are filtered through the lens of the Baptist and the “Reformed” and not Luther and Lutheran soteriology, etc. Oh, the irony.

    *News flash Calvinist … no Luther was not a Calvinist.

    00D0F8BF-07A5-40A9-8D61-732DDDE40909.jpeg
     
    #9 VDMA, Oct 17, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We are Lutheran
    These five “solas” (only’s) are statements that came out of the Reformation to describe what a Lutheran church is:

    SOLA SCRIPTURA - Lutherans stand on Scripture as their foundation of faith.
    SOLA FIDE - Lutherans believe faith alone saves apart from works.
    SOLA GRATIA - Lutherans believe that it is only by God's grace that we are saved.
    SOLUS CHRISTUS - Lutherans believe that it is through Christ's work alone that we are saved.
    SOLI DEO GLORIA - Lutherans believe that the glory for our salvation goes to God alone.

    Grace Evangelical Lutheran Church - Beliefs
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Niether post answers the thread.



     
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