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Featured The term "Reformed"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 15, 2016.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Define REFORMED for me would you...I mean your interpretation of the term as it is used in conjunction with Baptist

    Example, "we are Baptists but the 'Reformed' type.":)

    Like isn't the term best reserved for Protestants vs Baptists.
     
  2. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    #2 JonShaff, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Oxymoron.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Refomed Baptists are those who hold to a Confession of Faith, 1689 version, while most Baptists hold to Statement of beliefs local church...

    Would alo hold to Covenant Theology/Calvinism
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What if they hold to the Philadelphia Confessions or the famous 1644?

    You see, I view the term REFORMED to suggest something more akin to Presbyterianism & the Westminster Confessions of Faith ....IE The practice of the sacraments (including Baby Baptizing...as a sacramental circumcision), observing a Sabbath, Covenant theology, Elder led. They (the Presbyterians) do not really appreciate Baptists and review us as not being really Reformed....otherwise we would be them. I know this because I was a Presbyterian sooooo.....:Rolleyes
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    To be 'Reformed' should mean simply that your theology is constantly being reformed in line with Scripture. Ecclesia reformata semper reformanda. A Reformed church is always in need of reformation. It shouldn't mean that your theology is permanently stuck in the 16th or 17th Century. However 'Reformed' folk will usually believe in Covenant theology and Cessationism.

    Originally, the term meant that someone had left the Church of Rome and adopted Protestant theology. In France, for example, churches are described as being either 'Catholic' or 'Reformed.' However, those of us who describe ourselves as Reformed Baptist believe that whilst we follow in the footsteps of the Reformers and Puritans, we have abandoned the last relic of Romanist theology, infant baptism, I find the term 'Reformed' expresses my theology better than 'Particular' or 'Calvinistic.' although I find my theology very much in line with Keach, Coxe or Bunyan, though I reserve the right to disagree with them on various points.

    Another reason that I use it is because it annoys some of the more sniffy Presbyterians (R. Scott Clark and others) who think they have patented the term. :Biggrin

    Unfortunately the term 'Reformed Baptist' is being devalued these days and people who do not hold to covenant theology and who are charismatic are using it. It will probably end up being as meaningless as 'evangelical.'
     
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Personally I use 'Radical Christian' to identify my beliefs....even before the baptist monicor. Grace is what brings us back to the radix, our roots and orientates the conversion Jesus calls for. So I confer that Grace is radical.
     
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Belief in the doctrines of grace and covenant theology.
     
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  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The term "reformed" is derived primarily from the Reformation and Roman Catholic Reformers or Protesters who came out of the Roman Catholic Church as their ecclesiastical origin. With regard to doctrinal overtones, the term "reformed" is derived from what is now termed "calvinistic" doctrines that Luther, Calvin and other Reformers embraced.

    "Reformed" Baptists are basically those who trace their doctrinal and ecclesiastical origin to the Roman Catholic Church in the Reformation through the Reformers. By their own confession they embrace paedobaptism as their ecclesiastical origin.

    Biblical Baptist repudiate the term "reformed" as much as they do the terms "Sacramental" and "Protestant" as they trace neither their doctrinal or ecclesiastical origin to Rome or its harlot daughters (Rev. 17:5) but claim an ecclesiastical and doctrine origin wholly unassociated with Rome. BTW the 1644/46 Baptists clearly and unmistakenly referred Revelation 17:5 to Rome and her Protestant paedobaptist or Reformed denominations, just as did all earlier Anabaptists from the time of Constantine.

    I was reading the Minutes of the Broadmead church in Bristol and the account of the many "Anabaptist" (as Baptist were then called) conventicles in England under the reign of Queen Elizabeth which were clearly anti-paedobaptist and immersionists as were all in the time including the church of England were immersionists (as proven by the baptismal fonts). Reformed Baptists are no friend of the Lord's churches as they willingly and eagerly not only side with those who persecuted and killed the ancient baptists (paedobaptists) but claim them as their ecclesiastical parents.
     
    #9 The Biblicist, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Personal statement: So because I don't hold to the "Covenant Theology" thing then I am not "Reformed" in the context that people have this worldview......is that correct?
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Frankly Bib, I am confused by your explaination. If you look at the history of Great Britain alone, it was dominated by Roman Catholics.....and most of their wars were about who would retain control (RC or Protestant). So where do Baptists originate? Were they living in caves.....isolated from the Roman Legions who thru Constantine were spreading the Roman Catholic religion, or whey the elusive few again hiding in caves that escaped the Norman Conquests that sweeped the country? Or how about the vikings that through their many raids, concurred full areas of Britain & adopted Catholicism.....later Anglicism? Why John Knox was a Catholic priest that desented and was punished by being put on a French galley slave ship for years for that en-devour. When he was freed, Knox came back more resolute & spread Presbyterianism throughout Scotland. So again, where were these rugged and allusive Baptists that you suggest were never anything but?
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I can honestly say that I often get frustrated by the myriad of history (that is suggested) as evidence of plain truth attempting to distinguish just who is the "Plain truth & proper church." I cant make the great issues of the Reformation key to my life. Especially when I see that most of this was a struggle for power & righteousness (still going on to some degree apparently). So if I we have to divide, then I suggest that we do it like a contest.

    1. Which church is best working the Great Commission (facilitating sinners paths to Christ)

    2. Who is doing the better job feeding widows & orphans?:Wink:Thumbsup
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    See the works of John Frame as to what happens to someone who actuall dares to outreach to non strict Reformed gets handles!
    He is Reformed, but was taught under Dispy teachers, so he does see them as Christians, and he does allow for different worship styles, an h alo tends to see those of us holding to 5 points of Grace as "reformed" to a degree !
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is the standard accepted ueofte term!

    Tht iswhy thoe like John Macarthur boter them, as He is a Dispy Reformed, and not possible to them!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, many Reformed would hold to just a Presby viewpoint as aceptable, as those who are Reformed Baptist disagree with infant baptism, church governing, and some een Dispy or Pre mil!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Correct!
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    There is plenty of evidence during the period of Queen Elizabeth (1558-1603) that Baptists were plentiful in England. All Baptists were consistently called "anabaptists" by their opponents right up to 1680's. They are referenced to many times during her reign. They were arrested, tortured. There is complaints by the authorities of their illegal "conventicles." etc. They are explicitly and repeatedly charged with being anti-paedobaptist as they refused to have even their older children (2-12) immersed by paedobaptists.
     
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Secular history is:

    1. Uninspired - therefore full of personal opinions and restricted knowledge
    2. Incomplete - gaps, gaps of time, gaps of knowledge
    3. Often incorrect - biases, intentional revision of history, etc.

    Prophetic Scripture is the best interpreter of secular church history.

    First, you need to have a proper understanding of the Great Commission. BTW my thread on it has never been answered. Those who came on it, just change the subject matter.

    Rome does the best job on feeding widows and & orphans and tending to the sick and homeless, etc. So if that is your criteria you need to be a Roman Catholic
     
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Those actually involved in the early English Baptist churches, those Baptists historians that lived the closest to the early English Particular Baptists churches in London, all deny they originated from paedobaptists.

    Only the later universal invisible church whitsitt advocates make this charge along with the enemies of those early Baptists (paedobaptists).
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What is prophetic history as elating to this discussion?
    Andthe Great Commission is to witness to lost, train up thesaved, butalso tofeed and help outpoor and needy...
     
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