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Featured Trail of Blood

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Piper, Dec 15, 2023.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Alan Gross,
    A few things.

    Ephesians 4:5, ". . . one baptism, . . ." I understand to be water baptism.

    1 Corinthians 12:12-13, ". . . For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, . . .". I understand NOT to be water baptism.

    .
     
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  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Judge Judy loves this kind of testimony.

    This gal was telling Judge Judy one time
    that somebody had stolen her purse
    and that it had her keys, her I.D., and $100 dollar bill in it.

    The defendant who had been brought in before Judge Judy,
    said, "There wasn't no $100 dollar bill in there!"

    Judge Judy LOVED IT!
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    This is a typical comprehensive, word-for-word,
    treatment of I Corinthians 12:13,

    https://www.faithbaptistchurchwauseon.com/baptized-by-one-spirit-into-one-body/

    however, drawing from the scriptural phenomenon
    of "line upon line, precept upon precept",

    I find that there are places where people are at,
    with some "line" or "precept" they have
    that they are operating under, apparently, that I am not aware of,

    because, from where I'm standing,
    "I can't get there from here",
    concerning what they say that they are seeing in there.

    So, I can't claim any responsibility.

    For example, what we were just joking about.

    We know math.

    But, we can't "
    do the math" and still have things work out,
    when someone suggests to me something along the lines of this.

    With all due respect, from your post, above, as an example,
    when someone tells me something like this,
    it leaves me out in no-man's-land, because,

    "I can't get there from here".

    If we start from here:

    Then, by following that train of thought, go here:


    How can we still arrive back at:


    You can't do the math, because it just will not pan out.

    What do you do?

    How do you get there from here?

    Or, better yet, where is here?

    And I don't think we want to be trying to bring it before a Judge, ether.

    Something tells me that might not be very pretty.
     
    #64 Alan Gross, Jan 6, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2024
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your difficulty is not mine.

    There are Biblical teachings Christians disagree on.
    Hebrews 6:2, ". . . Of the doctrine of baptisms, . . ." Old Testament or New Testament baptisms?

    Matthew 3:11, ". . . I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: . . ."
    Three baptisms, with water, with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Ah, Hah! Bingo!


    ...

    ". . . I indeed baptize you with water"

    Literal baptism of the Divinely Originated church Ordinance,
    that John, the man sent from God, with the Authority of God to baptize
    was baptizing with, as being water baptism.


    "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost".

    figurative application of the literal baptism in water,
    suggesting a similar 'immersion', 'saturation', or 'anointing'

    that Jesus Administered on the Day of Pentecost,

    where He had promised to "Send Another Comforter",
    to Indwell Jesus' Creation, of a 'governing body of believers
    organized to be witnesses for God', all during The Church,
    at His public announcement and inauguration
    of His Divinely Originated Organization,
    that He had called,
    "My church", the first church at Jerusalem,

    as well as, His anointing of individual believers,
    immediately before or after Pentecost, with Miraculous Gifts,
    of the Holy Spirit,

    both of which John was referring to, when he was speaking
    and preaching to those who were there,
    at the time he was baptizing with water, and heard him say,
    "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."

    That would then fulfill Joel's prophecy, in Joel 2:28,
    "In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."


    To "the rest" who were there listening and heard John
    when he was baptizing with water
    as he was speaking and preaching, and warning those who were lost
    to repent, saying, "he shall baptize you with ...fire",

    and was a fulfillment of the immediate context,
    before and after Matthew 3:11*, if they remained lost,
    using the same figurative application
    of the literal baptism in water,
    suggesting a similar fate of 'immersion', 'saturation',
    or 'drowning' 'inundation'
    that awaited them, in the Lake of Fire.

    * 3:7; But when he saw many of the Pharisees
    and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them,

    O generation of vipers, who hath warned you
    to flee from the wrath to come
    ?


    8 "Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance:"

    10 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:
    therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit

    is hewn down, and cast into the fire."

    12 "Whose fan is in his hand,
    and he will thoroughly purge his floor,
    and gather his wheat into the garner;

    "but
    he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

    11, again, "he shall baptize you with ...fire",

    Got that?
    ...

    Three baptisms,

    One literal baptism with water,

    Literal baptism of the Divinely Originated church Ordinance,
    that John, the man sent from God,
    with the Authority of God to baptize
    was baptizing with, as being water baptism.

    ". . . I indeed baptize you with water".

    Then, a figurative use of the original concept of water baptism,
    where Jesus was going to baptize with the Holy Spirit.

    Another figurative use of the original concept of water baptism,
    where Jesus was going to baptize with fire.

    There are many other figurative uses
    of the original concept of water baptism.
    ...
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 4:4-6 lists and speaks of each of the Divine Possessions
    that the church at Ephesus has obtained
    and that contains The Authority of God associated with them,


    (which is also true and applicable to all of the same kind
    of like faith and order, New Testament churches,
    that Jesus founded that carry the Authority of God.)

    1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
    beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation,
    ("the saints which are at Ephesus", 1:1b.)
    wherewith ye are called,

    2 With all lowliness and meekness,
    with longsuffering,
    forbearing one another in love;
    (
    "the saints which are at Ephesus", 1:1b)

    3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit
    in the bond of peace.
    ("the saints which are at Ephesus", 1:1b.)

    4 There is one body,
    (as you have been taught, over and over,
    is the kind of local church assembly
    that you "
    saints which are at Ephesus", 1:1b.

    have all been organized into
    which you as the one kind of local church body
    that the church at Ephesus possess knowledge of
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    and one Spirit,
    (which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    even as ye are called
    ("the saints which are at Ephesus", 1:1b.)

    in one hope of your calling;
    (which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    5 One Lord,
    (which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    one faith,
    (which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess

    and have obtained, that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    one baptism,

    (as you have been taught to be water baptism, by the Lord's example,

    and is the Literal one baptism in water,
    of the Divinely Originated church Ordinance, that John,
    the man sent from God, with the Authority of God to baptize
    was baptizing with, as being water baptism,

    ". . . I indeed baptize you with water",

    which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    6 One God and Father of all,
    (which you as the local church body at Ephesus possess, vs 7,
    and have obtained,
    that contains The Authority of God associated with it),

    who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    7 But unto every one of us is given grace
    according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The use of the word "church", as used by Jesus and in the New Testament, when speaking of the institution Jesus built, always refers to "a local organized assembly of baptized believers, etc."

    Every time. 114 times.

    Christianity has also been sold the seemingly impossible suggestion that
    since another opposite meaning "appears" to be what "must be what God is referring to instead", then the Divine Authority to add in that new diametrically polar opposite meaning "is probably just fine and O.K. with God to do."

    It makes God into a liar concerning what He originally had written in the Bible, by using the Greek word He did and causes the Bible to be contradicting itself, now, from what it had always been expressing previously.

    The new meaning added to that of "a local organized assembly of baptized believers, etc.", is exactly what you have heard"the church" to be, that God have chosen a perfectly normal Greek to express, of that is what He had intended to do, is actually the definition of a "kingdom".

    All of God's children alive on the face of the earth, are born into the Kingdom of God when they are saved and are then under Jesus, their Savior and King.

    That Kingdom of God is world-wide and contains every saved soul alive on planet Earth, as we said.

    That description of The Kingdom of God is drastically different and the virtual opposite meaning of "a local organized assembly of baptized believers, etc.", which is what Jesus Divinely Originated and was to build and equip to carry out the business of God, in a specific location.

    However, now wait. Sometimes after the New Testament Era and the writing of the Bible, a shift began to occur on the organization that Jesus had established, as being local self governing independent "church" bodies and assemblies, to more of a hierarchical design in government and function.

    Eventually, some editing began to emerge also, into the minds of religious people and leaders, that had a need for explaining their existence, as being altogether different than a local assembly.

    The Roman Catholic "Church" got there pretty quick and made official the way they saw it, that henceforth they are what they have stolen for their name, as now a "church" that has been forged into a new definition, since they were claiming to have a presence world-wide THEY COULD CALL THAT GLOBAL DISPERSEMENT OF THEIR PARTICULAR RELIGION THE CATCH ALL PHASE OF THE "UNIVERSAL VISIBLE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH".

    So, you see an evil religious doppelganger had come into world stage and the adoption of the meaning for ",a kingdom" had begun to have been nefariously sabotage, contaminate, and counterfeit (surprise) JESUS' FULL INTENSION OF REVEALING TO MANKIND HIS CHURCH THAT HE HAD DIVINELY DESIGNED TO BRING HIM GLORY.

    That's it.

    God did not come along late in the game to Divinely God-Breath a new opposite definition to the Greek word "church" we have in our English Bibles.

    Above. A local organized assembly of baptized believers. etc., etc.

    The Greek word at the time of the Bible and 300 years prior, had this meaning exclusively, in Greek writings and usage that would have been the one and only meaning the actual hearers of Jesus' words, would have known to understand He was expressing to them.

    To some, it has always had this as its sole meaning.

    Such as my home church since her founding in 1786.

    That is what the Bible teaches. Why wouldn't we?

    Satan.

    God doesn't work that way, of switching out the meanings of the words used in the Bible and exchanging them with new meanings to those words that assign and give His original ideas He was talking about, UTTERLY AND TOTALLY OPPOSITE "IDEAS".,,

    That is only Satan's business of doing in the world, to? Deceive.

    And to act in direct opposition to God, God's word, and Jesus' New Testament Age long witnesses for God that He established as the New Testament Age assemblies in which God is to be Worshipped, in a very similar design He gave for the assemblies of the Tabernacle and the Temple, etc., THAT SATAN HAS ACTIVELY GONE ABOUT TO SEEK AND DEVOURER BY ADULTERATING AND BASTARDIZING MEANINGS TO WORDS IN THE BIBLE,

    AND THEN PAWN THEM OFF TO MANKIND
    AND CHRISTIANITY IN PARTICULAR
    AS IF THEY NOW HAVE:

    "TWO POSIBLE MEANINGS
    THAT HAVE TWO COMPLETELY OPPOSITE MEANINGS TO ONE ANOTHER"????

    HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO WORK?

    WHEN DID "THEY" START DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

    TO WORDS IN THE BIBLE???

    ANSWER: LONG AFTER THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN.

    WHY? TO ACCOMMODATE THE FALSE RELIGIONS OF MAN
    IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO BRING THEM
    SOME DEGREE OF PHONY LEGITIMACY
    THAT THEY DON'T POSSESS IN ANY OTHER WAY.
     
    #68 Alan Gross, Jan 7, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2024
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Peace to you
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    8524854-spock8.jpg
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I’m quoting Jesus though Spock is cool

    peace to you
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Live long and prosper.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:18, ". . . upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. . . ."
    That church is made up churches of baptized believes and all whom He saves.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Appropriate response….

    “Peace and long life”

    peace to you
     
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