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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by jcf, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. jcf

    jcf Guest

    by John C. Ferreira

    I know this study may be a little long but I pray that you will take your time in reading this study and the Scripture verses. It's very important to grasp what is being taught here because it will clear up a lot of false doctrines as well as the confusion we have when we read our bibles.

    Constantine and the Catholic Church has brought so many pagan doctrines into the Christian faith that it's hard to sort through it all. There is so much to unlearn in order to be able to receive YAHWEH's truth. One of the dangers of receiving a false doctrine such as the trinity is all the baggage that comes along with it.

    When a false doctrine is taught you will find a string of false doctrines following in order to build a foundation that justifies the false doctrine being taught. It's in these strings that cause the confusion that make it hard to grasp the truth of God's word. Even our bible translations have conformed to much of man's interpretation and theology, for example John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    Right away we begin to believe that this word (Word) spoken of in John is only referring to Jesus making Jesus the eternal and unseen God, YAHWEH.

    Why is this taught and believed?

    Because in order to push the co-eternal attribute of the trinity doctrine Jesus would have to preexist.

    The preexistence of Jesus or better yet the false teaching that we have an immortal soul comes from Greek and pagan philosophy and is not taught in scripture. We have been taught to believe this in order to justify the co-eternal trinity doctrine.

    Are we immortal? Lets turn to the scriptures to get our answer.

    Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

    James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    So, who has immortality?

    1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    Jesus did not have immortality. How do I know this? He died.

    1 Timothy 6:16 Who (YAHWEH) only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    So you see, it's only the Father (YAHWEH) who has immortality, no one else. We as abiding believers will get immortality at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

    Romans 2:7-8 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.

    1 Cor.15:52-54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    The second death is not the second life. Eternal life and immortality is a gift to abiding believers when Christ comes back.

    Lets go back to the preexistence of Christ.

    When you read the first chapter in the book of John you will find in some bible translations words such as (he) and (Word). These words are used by the translators in such a way as to promote the trinity doctrine. When the translators use a capital (W) in word (logos) it was done to promote their trinity doctrine and the preexistence of Jesus.

    As you read your bible you will find the same word (logos) in the other areas of the bible where the capital (W) was not used. You will also find in John the word (he) as a personification of the word (logos). This is also a theological decision based on a preconceived trinity theology.

    So what does the word in John describe?

    The word in John is describing YAHWEH's word, His thoughts, His wisdom, in other words His will.

    In the beginning was the word, will, plan of God. This plan, will, word was with God and was God, it's His thoughts.

    YAHWEH's mind, plans and wisdom are revealed through His words. In the same way our words reveal our thoughts.

    In the beginning was YAHWEH's word, His will, His plans as expressed in creation.

    Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

    Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    Psalms 148:1-5 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. Let them praise the name of the Lord: for He commanded, and they were created.

    Jesus became YAWHEW's word/will because Jesus obeyed His Father's words/will, Jesus lived out His Father's plans, they were one in will and purpose just like we can be one with them in will and purpose. John 17:11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

    Remember, there were two wills in Jesus, Jesus' will and His Father's will. They became one will through the obedience of Jesus. Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Hebrews 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Jesus' will and YAHWEH's will or plan are two different things but they had to be in agreement in order to fulfill YAHWEH's salvation plan.

    Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    Revelation 1:9 I, John, both your brother and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    ****Very, very important....everything we see in creation was first in God's mind as part of His eternal plan so when He speaks, He speaks of those things which are already in His mind, He is revealing His eternal plan. The prophecies in the OT are glimpses of God's plan which were and are contained His thoughts before they become literal.

    Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

    In the Hebrew thought process you will not find preexistence as taught in the trinity doctrine. What you will find in Hebrew thought is God's plan contained within His mind. Everything we read regarding creation, salvation, redemption, us and even Jesus was first in God's mind until He brought it to reality or made it literal.

    The following are verses will help you understand this concept of Hebrew thought that is found throughout Scripture. Pay close attention to words such as foreknowledge, secret, foundation of the world, plan, foreordained, purpose, mystery all these words reveal what was in YAHWEH's mind as His eternal plan.

    Acts 2:23 But God, following his prearranged plan, let you use the Roman government to nail him to the cross and murder him.

    Acts 15:18 That is what the Lord says, who reveals his plans made from the beginning.

    Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

    Luke 9:31 They were splendid in appearance, glorious to see; and they were speaking of his death at Jerusalem, to be carried out in accordance with God's plan.

    Luke 22:22 I must die. It is part of God's plan. But, oh, the horror awaiting that man who betrays me.''

    Romans 2:16 The day will surely come when at God's command Jesus Christ will judge the secret lives of everyone, their inmost thoughts and motives; this is all part of God's great plan which I proclaim.

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all that happens to us is working for our good if we love God and are fitting into his plans.

    Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Ephesians 1:9 God has told us his secret reason for sending Christ, a plan he decided on in mercy long ago;

    Ephesians 1:11 Moreover, because of what Christ has done we have become gifts to God that he delights in, for as part of God's sovereign plan we were chosen from the beginning to be his, and all things happen just as he decided long ago.

    Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    2 Timothy 1:9 It is he who saved us and chose us for his holy work, not because we deserved it but because that was his plan long before the world began--to show his love and kindness to us through Christ.

    1 Peter 1:19-20 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Was Jesus slain before the world was or was He slain 2000 years ago? Jesus was slain before the world was as being in the mind of God as part of His salvation plan.

    Did God speak to us through His Son in the Old Testament? No, He did not, He spoke to us through prophets.

    Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Lets look at the genealogy of Jesus to see if He existed in the Old Testament. God has taken some time here to list this out for us so we would not be deceived by Greek mythology and philosophy.

    Matthew 1:1-16 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

    You can see in the genealogy of Jesus that He didn't preexist literally in the Old Testament but rather He is only existed in seed form in the same way you and I are in seed form prior to our birth. This is called the family tree.

    Trinitarians who believe Jesus preexisted will use verses such as the following to prove the preexistence of Jesus.

    John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    Trinitarians say because Jesus was sent from God it shows that He preexisted in heaven prior to coming to earth. To be sent from God or by God only means you were given a mission by God according to His will and eternal purpose. It does not mean you literally came from heaven.

    John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

    John the Baptist was sent from God, we don't teach that he came from heaven first.

    2 Kings 1:14 Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight.

    Is there fire in heaven?

    Psalms 78:45 He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.

    Are there flies and frogs in heaven?

    John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

    There must be a lot of bushel baskets of bread in heaven.

    When we read of things or people who have been sent by God or came out from God or came from heaven, it just means that it was given or sent by God.

    If President Bush, who is in Washington, sends troops from Fort Hood Texas to Iraq it doesn't mean that the troops literally came from Washington. They were sent from the authority and will of President Bush who is in Washington.

    God had a salvation plan from the beginning which is a mystery to His creation. He slowly over time reveals His plan to us. This is where you get all the words such as, foreknew, foreknowledge, from the foundation of the world, eternal purpose, mystery and so on.

    Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    Ephesians 3:11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,

    1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might bethe firstborn among many brethren.

    Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    There is so much more to cover such as Jesus being the firstborn of all creation and Jesus creating the world but I'll stop here and let you ponder. I'm sure you will find more as you continue in your studies.