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Featured What is Worship?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Scarlett O., Nov 3, 2016.

  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I hate to derail yet another thread, so here's a new one with a new purpose.

    What is worship?

    I'll tell you what I think - you can tell me what you think.

    First, I'll say that worship is NOT singing in the choir, feeding the poor, teaching Sunday School, giving to charities, building hospitals, or doing any "good works". These can be expressions of worship, but that's all. They - in and of themselves - are not what constitutes worship.

    Why not?

    Because the deed in the flesh is motivated by the heart. It isn't our flesh that give praise and exalts God - it's the heart. And .... because the bible describes worship as something bigger than our actions and deeds.

    No one gives more money away to the poor than Bill Gates. Yet, he is a staunch unbeliever. He even has the Sermon on the Mount memorized from his childhood days. He occasionally goes to church because it's the "social thing to do". But he professes absolute unbelief. It is impossible for him - in the state he is in - to worship. And his good works are not going to lead him to Christ.

    Non-believers who show common courtesy, manners, concern, or even compassion are not worshipping. They are just being kind.

    Here's another example of why good works are not worship - this one is hypothetical, but I hope you can see yourself in it. Suppose a new family in your church has a death in the family - the father dies in a car accident.

    Now suppose two women from the bereavement committee are bringing food to the home. Both women are saved - Christians. One brings a chocolate cake and the other brings a green bean casserole. They both come up the sidewalk and enter the home at the same time. They both console the family, pick up around the house, and help out as best they can.

    AND.....

    The woman who brings the green beans says to herself as she comes up the driveway. "Dear God, please help me to know what to say to these people. I don't really know them. They are new. Help me to be sensitive to their needs. Please be real to them in their time of grief and help me and our church to reach out as Christ would do. I think I'll help her clean up a little."

    BUT.....

    The woman who brings the chocolate cake says this to herself as she comes up the driveway. "The is the LAST time that bake this cake for the bereavement committee. They had NO IDEA how much these ingredients cost. And why should I have to go out of my way for people that I don't even know?!? I'll stay and clean for about 15 minutes more and then I'm leaving!" Perhaps the woman with the bad attitude has had a bad week at work or perhaps she has two sick kids at home. Perhaps she has no excuse.

    Either way, despite the fact that she is saved, her actions show no exalting of God's name. And the woman who IS thinking of glorifying the Lord?? Her good works are not worship.

    The worship is in her heart - in her motivation because of her love for God, her fear of God, and her love for God's people. Her cleaning this woman's house and bringing food may be an expression of worship, but the worship began in her heart before she even got there and will stay in her heart long after she leaves.

    If worship IS good works, then worship would be fleshly and worship could be faked, quantified, and measured to make us look good. Worship is not about us - or even others. Worship is about God.

    That's what I think worship is NOT. In the next post, I'll tell you what I believe worship to BE - from scripture.
     
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    So what IS worship?

    I did a personal study several years ago of all the places in the bible where worship is mentioned. I organized the scriptures into categories:

    BIBLICAL WORSHIP
    1. What is biblical worship?

    • Something only intended for God, Himself. (Ex. 34:14; Ps. 81:9; Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8)
    • Something due Jesus Christ because He is God's Son (Matt. 14:33)
    • Humanity meeting God where He is. (Matt. 2:2; Mark 5:6; Act 8:22)
    2. What prompted worship in the bible?
    • A response to God's actions (His deliverance, His call to worship, and His revelation.) (Ex. 4:31; 12:27; 24:1; Judges 7:15)
    • The fear of God (Ps. 22:27)
    • Personal belief (John 9:38)
    3. How did people prepare for worship?
    • Physical (bodily) preparations (2 Sam. 12:20)
    • Genuine repentance had to come first (1 Sam. 15:30)
    • Spiritual preparations (Job 1:20; 1 Chron. 16:29; Ps. 96:9; John 4:23-24; Phil 3:3)
    4. What did people literally and physically do during worship? Well, sometimes they....
    • bowed their heads (Gen 24:26; 24:48; Ex. 4:31; 12:27; 34:8; 1 Chron. 29:20; Neh. 8:6)
    • physically fell in humility (and so did/do spirit beings) (Gen. 24:52; Josh. 5:14; Ps. 95:6; Matt. 2:11; 28:9; 2 Chron. 20:18; 29:29; Rev. 5:14; 7:11; 11:16; 19:4)
    • sang (2 Chron. 29:28-30; Ps. 66:4)
    • played instruments (2 Chron. 29:28)
    • read God's Word (Neh. 9:3)
    • lifted their hands (Neh. 8:6)
    • participated in great and joyous celebrations (Zech. 14:16)
    • stood up in acknowledgement of God's presence (Ex. 33:10)
    • confessed their sin (Neh. 9:3)
    • prayed in gratitude and made petitions (Gen. 24:26; 24:48; Matt. 8:2; 9:18; 15:25)
    • made sacrifices and gave offerings (Deut. 26:10; 1 Sam. 1:3; 2 Chron. 29:29; 2 Kings 17:36; Matt. 2:11)
    • dedicated lives to God (1 Sam. 1:28)
    5. What were the attributes of God that were focused on during worship?
    • exalting His very Being (Ps. 99:5-9)
    • the glory of His Name (1 Chron. 16:29; Ps. 29:2; 86:9)
    • His mercy and goodness (2 Chron. 7:3)
    • His loving kindness (Ps. 138:2)
    6. How did they know that they had experienced genuine worship?
    • They bore the spiritual fruit of joy. (Luke 24:52)
    7. What prevented them from experiencing true worship?
    • vain traditions of men. (Matt. 15:9; Mark 7:7)
    • insincere repentance and/or making excuses for and blaming others for their sin (1 Sam. 15:25)

    To me and based on this personal study - worship is the magnification of God's holy name and attributes. It can include deeds, but can also be absolutely void of a focus on good works. Worship is acknowledging who God is and who you are in relation to him. And there are a myriad ways to accomplish this - but all ways of worship must come from a clean heart and a heart focused on exalting God.
     
    #2 Scarlett O., Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2016
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I point to the Cross. Perfect Love. A good work. Show me greater worship.

    Any worship that is not Love is trash.




    "If worship IS good works, then worship would be fleshly and worship could be faked, quantified, and measured to make us look good."

    A EVIL WORK that pretends to be a GOOD work is a EVIL WORK, PERIOD.

    So worship isn't even something you do now? absurd.


    1 Corinthians 13

    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.


    If its not love it is nothing.




    Please by all means give me an example of you "Worshipping" WHILE hating God. Its so ridiculous you need to have a change of mind really.
     
  4. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Those were a lot of good things that you mentioned and pretty unarguable, as I see our friend utilyan definition of worship. The only thing I can question is when you said: "Some due Jesus Christ because he was God's son". Some? Jesus Christ is God Himself come to earth - God Incarnate! When you worship him you are worshipping the Father - surely you know that? Jesus deserves all the worship we can give him, no?
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Love is not worship, it is a motivation for proper worship but in and of itself is not worship. Pointing to the cross does not prove love is worship. Further I Corinthians 13 does not define worship. You make unfounded claims, take scripture out of context, and show a complete lack of basic hermeneutics.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Yes, of course Jesus Christ deserves all the worship we have in us. He is indeed God in the flesh.

    I made a typo - "some" should have been "something". I was just listed the scriptural passages about worship. I'll correct that.

    *Oops! I can't. Maybe a moderator can do that for me.
     
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    To my fellow noobies in Christ like myself, not you smarter folks. Let me show you what is worship.


    Romans 12

    1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.


    3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, 5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; 7if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; 8or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

    9Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; 11not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, 13contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
    14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. 17Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. 18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord. 20“BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD.” 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.



    LOVE is the CORE of worship. NO LOVE, NO WORSHIP. NO LOVE, NO GOD.


    You can't even GIVE without Love.



    If you read the above bible passage. Follow it with this. you will notice clear parallel.

    It is everything about proper worship!

    Just like this passage first he starts off with no one is better then anyone else. Works through some ministries.

    of how we "PRESENT OURSELVES AS HOLY AND LIVING SACRIFICES"

    which is your spiritual service of worship


    And when it finishes off it gives you the CREAM OF THE CROP, The beat down of all rules, the commandments of LOVE.
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Here is the parallel.

    READ very closely as it leads up to WORSHIP. It follows same path as Romans 12.



    1 Corinthians 12


    1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. 2You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
    4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
    12For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
    14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20But now there are many members, but one body. 21And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
    27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
    And I show you a still more excellent way.


    Folks. you do not want to know what the next chapter is.

    The more selfish and evil you are the more likely your gonna throw up inside a bit.
     
  9. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    This is what worship is. Every single fiber of it is worship.

    ready?


    1 Corinthians 13

    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
    4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
     
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The English word "worship" means "to give worth, honor, glory". Psalm 29:2 expounds on this idea:

    Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

    This text defines what we are to do "give....glory DUE unto HIS NAME; worship" and what boundaries accomplish the goal "worship....in the beauty of holiness."

    Only by what is set apart, defined, and approved by God's Word can be regarded as "the beauty of holiness." When worship so defined is given, then one truly does "give ....glory DUE unto His name." The bible defines what is worthy of God and what dishonors God.

    The New Testament equivalent is "worship in spirit and in truth."
    There is no worship "in spirit" without three things:

    1. Spiritual capacity - born of the Spirit in order to be "in the Spirit"
    2. Spiritual capability - filled with the Spirit or under the leadership of the Spirit
    3. Spiritual character - true worship manifests the fruits of the Spirit

    There is no true worship where the worship is not "in truth" - "the beauty of HOLINESS" (set apart - Jn. 17:17).

    1. Truth of God or else you have idolatry and not worship - Jn. 17:3
    2. Truth of salvation or else you have no basis for worship - Jn. 17:3
    3. Truth of the Revealed will for worship, its precepts and principles - 1 Cor. 14:41
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Hey bib, I kinda miss you.:D

    Your one of my favorites.

    Ill definitely read your stuff.

    Can you quote or correct 1 cor. 14:41?

    Thank you.
     
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    You are still confusing loving people with worshipping God.

    Romans 12 speaks of our being living sacrifices and that being our spiritual service of worship. But the rest of Romans 12 is not defining or describing that said worship.

    I give up.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Don't give up, Sister. God is on your side you'll get the answer you need.

    Like it says : " be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.":D

    I'm sure we can find something that will leave us both smiling.

    Please tell me how much of Romans 12 defines or describes worship, if at all.

    And thank you for everything you do.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Well, I’ll just give you a brief outline of what I believe Paul to be talking about in Romans 12. I really like this chapter, especially 1-2. There about 10 sermons in those two rich verses.

    Verses 1-2: Our lives are a living sacrifice. God has shown us mercies, he says, and we should live a sacrificial life for God in return as worship of him. We lay down everything about us for the glory of God – our hearts, minds, souls, spirits, flesh, strengths, weaknesses, resources – everything. That’s what makes it “reasonable service of worship.” It’s reasonable that we owe God everything because of his “mercies” to us.

    That’s worship. And it may include giving to the poor. It may include meditation on the scriptures in the privacy of your prayer closet. It may include being on your face in repentance over sin. It might be teaching a Sunday School class. Whatever we have and whatever we are – worship is living a life that everything about us is to bring glory to God.

    That’s worship.

    As far as the rest:

    Verse 3 is teaching humility.

    Verses 4-8 teach the importance of understanding how unity in the body is vital, but at the same time does not interfere with the diversity of the body. Everyone has different gifts and talents, but we all are unified under Christ. And then he gives a list [not an exhaustive list] of what some of the gifts are.

    Verses 9-13 is about having the proper and Godly relationship with those in your church and in THE church and fellow Christians in general as a result of unity and yet having diverse gifts.

    Verse 14 is about how to treat those who are cruel.

    And verses 15-21 is just about how to LIVE with people. In the church. Out of the church. Everywhere.
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Well I am going to let you give your explanation of this Passage.
    Mark 12
    28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31“The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; 33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.
    Keep in mind, I am providing SCRIPTURE.
    LOVE of neighbor is HIGHEST WORSHIP. As scripture states: is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
    Much more.....then some offerings and sacrifice? ALL.


    "Love is not worship,"

    No love? NO WORSHIP. Just TRASH.
     
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    No where in that Scripture is it saying that love is worship. It is saying that love is more valuable than burnt offerings and sacrifices.
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    And burnt offerings and sacrifice is not worship?
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    "Is not religion all deeds and all reflection, and that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?" :)

    Worship is something that we do in our everyday lives. Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. Our lives, everything we do, is some form of worship (even if it is self-worship rather than God worship). We are to present our bodies as living sacrifices, which is our spiritual worship. Using your definition (which I very much like), our lives themselves should magnify God’s holy name because that is the reason that God created us in Jesus Christ (for good works so that those who see them will glorify God).
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Leviticus 1

    1Then the LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, 2“Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When any man of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of animals from the herd or the flock. 3‘If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he shall offer it, a male without defect; he shall offer it at the doorway of the tent of meeting, that he may be accepted before the LORD. 4‘He shall lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, that it may be accepted for him to make atonement on his behalf. 5‘He shall slay the young bull before the LORD; and Aaron’s sons the priests shall offer up the blood and sprinkle the blood around on the altar that is at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 6‘He shall then skin the burnt offering and cut it into its pieces. 7‘The sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8‘Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, the head and the suet over the wood which is on the fire that is on the altar. 9‘Its entrails, however, and its legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall offer up in smoke all of it on the altar for a burnt offering, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.
    10‘But if his offering is from the flock, of the sheep or of the goats, for a burnt offering, he shall offer it a male without defect. 11‘He shall slay it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD, and Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood around on the altar. 12‘He shall then cut it into its pieces with its head and its suet, and the priest shall arrange them on the wood which is on the fire that is on the altar. 13‘The entrails, however, and the legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall offer all of it, and offer it up in smoke on the altar; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.
    14‘But if his offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, then he shall bring his offering from the turtledoves or from young pigeons. 15‘The priest shall bring it to the altar, and wring off its head and offer it up in smoke on the altar; and its blood is to be drained out on the side of the altar. 16‘He shall also take away its crop with its feathers and cast it beside the altar eastward, to the place of the ashes. 17‘Then he shall tear it by its wings, but shall not sever it. And the priest shall offer it up in smoke on the altar on the wood which is on the fire; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.


    This is not worship?
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Colossians 3

    12So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.


    Is this worship over here?
     
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