Why is Crimean vote bad?

[poncho]

You guys are awesome - thank you for the replies! I made it make more sense in my head by putting Puerto Rico and Spain in place of them and imagining the situation. Not quite the same, I know, but the overall concept is there.

I'm still trying to figure out how this vote happened. Who exactly held it, to make it illegal and have other nations refuse to recognize it? I saw this link that only names one person and isn't too helpful: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...6d8a46-a520-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

And another question - if this is indeed as it appears - a powerful country stepping into a fragile area and taking advantage of political unrest to seize control, which countries care? Do enough care and have enough power to do anything, or will this one just go as is? If it is an obvious violation and will trigger mass repercussions, why do you think Russia is bothering? It doesn't seem as if there is much to gain. They had what they needed with the treaty, and I'm not seeing any major exports or reasons why this area would be especially profitable, or am I wrong there? If the people were truly a concern to them, why not set up a special policy to allow absorption of willing Crimeans into Russia, rather than step in and take over, having the mess of those who wish to retain the citizenship they have now or have no citizenship, as it's been said they will be able to do?

Short of nostalgia...or flexing their muscles, what is Russia gaining from this? Do they think nobody will bother with it, or do you think they are using it as a trigger for something more major?

As far as people saying Obama is not doing anything - it seems to me that he has been quietly doing little things with Russia over the years. (reminds me of little things siblings to do try to get the other ticked off) Annoying things, and I've wondered if he was trying to stir things up. I'm rather surprised at the view of many Americans saying he's too friendly with Russia to do anything. Do people on this board seem to think that's true? Conservative Christian view might be different than that of the general population...

Contrary to the popular narrative Russia did not just up and decide to "invade" Ukraine without provocation Gina.

I have asked the people making the "Russian invasion" claim to provide credible evidence. So far I've got chuckles, snide remarks, insults, opinion pieces with no primary sources and a video with no sound anyone could have taken anywhere.

What the evidence does show is USAID and NED working through the US State Dept and several NGOs in Ukraine and Crimea have been funneling money to radical anti Russian groups there. 5 billion dollars is the amount admitted to by Victoria Nuland to subvert Ukraine. SEE THIS.

Then there is the matter of this phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister who alleges that the snipers who killed both protesters and police were either paid by or working in conjunction with the new Ukrainian coup government. HERE.

"The Estonian Foreign Ministry has confirmed the authenticity of a telephone conversation posted on the Internet between Minister of Foreign Affairs Urmas Paet and EU’s High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton regarding the events in Ukraine, the press service of the Estonian Foreign Ministry reports." HERE.

If this is true and the snipers were hired by or involved with the "new Ukraine govt" it would ruin the whole mainstream narrative the "Russia invaded Ukraine without provocation". It is now the "responsibility" of this new Ukrainian coup government to investigate this matter. How convenient.

Whether this is true or not no one but the snipers knows as yet but it wouldn't be the first time a government in league with NATO pulled a false flag attack to blame the Russians. There's even a term for it, "strategy of tension".

For more see Operation Gladio.

Long story short "GLADIO" was used to blow things up and kill people and pin it on the "communists" in order to create fear and manipulate public opinion. It's old hat spy vs spy stuff and it's all documented in the public records.

So, the whole idea that Russia just up and decided to invade Ukraine without provocation is very doubtful.

Okay now I expect the "Russians invaded Ukraine" crowd to start with their snears and jeers becuase thus far that's all they have been able to provide.

To answer your first question. "why is the Crimean vote bad" . . . because Washington spent 5 billion dollars for a regime change and it didn't go their way. They thought the Crimeans would run into the arms of the EU and IMF so Brussels could dictate what and who their new "democracy" would be and so they could be looted by the IMF like Greece, Italy, and Latvia.

 

[shodan]

Americans, even our Dept. of State, have little historical perspective. Did anyone point out that Russian gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 ? Ukraine gains by losing this region which is a drain on its economy.

Here is a thoughtful article. We might also read James alongside it.

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/69312.htm

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Americans, even our Dept. of State, have little historical perspective. Did anyone point out that Russian gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 ? Ukraine gains by losing this region which is a drain on its economy.

What are you, a communist sleeper agent? Crimea is the richest and most industrial province in Ukraine. Your description here is either woefully misinformed, or an outright subterfuge.

Here is a thoughtful article. We might also read James alongside it.

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/69312.htm

Again with the communist literature? Hmm ...

 

[Gina B]

I'm still reading on it all, Poncho. It's a lot to learn. I'm reading about the Tatars and their history today.

Whether Russia is right or wrong in what they did, it still seems very odd to think the area is under oppression and in need of rescuing intervention when they're going about rejoicing. That doesn't make any sense. The mental image of a people happy with their situation having to undergo what is being threatened in order to be "free" seems really wrong and messed up. They really don't get a say in this? Someone else decides what they should be, and what the personal price is for that...if it's going to be blood, war, or not? Yes, that happens in other places too, but it doesn't make it any less disturbing...and what happens when they're "free?" People really think the USA should step in? And then what? Another El Salvador? Is that better?

Ugh. Humans are awful.

 

[poncho]

I'm still reading on it all, Poncho. It's a lot to learn. I'm reading about the Tatars and their history today.

Whether Russia is right or wrong in what they did, it still seems very odd to think the area is under oppression and in need of rescuing intervention when they're going about rejoicing. That doesn't make any sense. The mental image of a people happy with their situation having to undergo what is being threatened in order to be "free" seems really wrong and messed up. They really don't get a say in this? Someone else decides what they should be, and what the personal price is for that...if it's going to be blood, war, or not? Yes, that happens in other places too, but it doesn't make it any less disturbing...and what happens when they're "free?" People really think the USA should step in? And then what? Another El Salvador? Is that better?

Ugh. Humans are awful.

Just keep in mind that most of what we've been reading in the mainstream media is based on unverified claims made by people who violently overthrew an elected government that would benefit from a gift of big money and weapons from Washington.

 

[poncho]

For one thing, there were thousands of Russian troops occupying Crimea at the time of the voting. This would obviously put a damper any votes to oppose uniting with Russia.

Anyway, the urge to merge with Russia, such as it exists in Crimea, is a generational matter. Many older voters consider themselves of Russian heritage, while younger ones do not.

LINK - Sunday’s vote, however, threatened to split society in numerous, and perhaps unexpected, ways. In addition to Crimean Tatars, who make up about 12 percent of the population and generally oppose becoming part of Russia, many young Crimeans, born after Ukrainian independence, have come out strongly against the referendum, putting them in conflict with their parents and grandparents, some of whom have fond memories of the Soviet Union.

“The vote is fiction,” said Kseniya Zaplantinskaya, 19, a philosophy student. “In my family there are different opinions; my parents are for Russia.”
Anastasia Sherbina, 21, a medical student, said she would vote for Crimea to remain part of Ukraine, the only national identity she has ever known. “I was born here,” Ms. Sherbina said. “I’ve lived here. I want to be a Ukrainian.”

Putin may have won this thing. But now how will he supply Crimea and pay for pensions of Ukrainian retirees etc? Good luck with that.

Reports confirm that the referendum was conducted without incidents.

Foreign observers from several Western countries were present.

The head of the referendum commission, Mikhail Malyshev, confirmed at a news conference that the voting proceeded smoothly.

No complaints were filed suggesting voting irregularities. The counting of the vote has commenced at the level of district commissions.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/latest-report-crimea-referendum-93-percent-of-exit-polls-confirm-vote-for-union-with-russia/5373711

See my post above for further clarification.