Featured Defining Terms (please read the first post)

I believe I presented you with scripture which teaches us how we are to show we are children of our Father in heaven and NOT hate people. If we can agree that God does not hate people, then maybe we can move forward and look at those passages you presented which you believe says God hates people, as the Jews also misinterpreted.

 

Still waiting...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeshua1
Except tht you also must factor into that all sinners are spiritually dead,

Could you please explain what that means? Begin with Adam, show from the scripture how Adam was unable to hear God and respond to God after he sinned and spiritually died. And then you can go to Cain, and explain how he was not able to respond to God.

 

Calvinists , at least tne classic ones, always held to the deparavity of man, that we died spiritually in Adam, and it took the work of The Holy Spirit to save any sinner, do you hold to that?

That we cannot '\"come to Christ" by our own voliations/will, as we have been bound up in sin nature now.Do you agree with that?

And the death of jesus was made as atonement for those to whom salvation was to come from God, but until that grace to save them was effectual applied towards them, they were all still lost and dead in Adam, spiritual dead in sins and transgressions!

 

Just because God did not save all sinners means that he hates them, but that He chose to save whom He decided to be His covenant people now under the New Covenant...

He can still love those sinners, but have a special love extended towards those whom have been saved by Him...

Think love/hate needs to be seen in the light of one being in a saving relationship with God or not...

 

I cited many of the come to Me verses and showed that the phrase means travel toward Me. The Calvinist assertion that it means trust in Me is yet another example of redefining word meanings to pour Calvinism into the text.

I showed that the Calvinist doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability means, according to Calvinism, that no unregenerate person can seek God or trust in Christ. However, I showed that doctrine is unbiblical by citing Matthew 23:13 where unregenerate men were seeking God, actually entering heaven, when they we blocked by false teachers.

And I showed that the Calvinist assertion that when Christ died, 2000 years ago, His death removed the sin burden from the elect, is yet again mistaken doctrine.

They can change the subject all they want, but this truth shines forth, Calvinism is mistaken doctrine, and scripture after scripture plainly demonstrates that truth.

 

Oh, I see where Convicted1 evaded discussion of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, redefining "from the beginning" as "before the foundation of the world." Words have no meaning to Calvinism, change from to before and it is ok.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 demonstrates we were chosen, after we had faith in the truth. That little item was evaded. It also demonstrates a conditional election through faith in the truth. That was also evaded.

Then, with no scripture in support Convicted1 claims being chosen in Him means individually chosen rather than corporately chosen. So yet again, they change the meaning of words and add words to alter scripture. We are called by the gospel of Christ, and we did not hear that call until we were physically living. Thus our individual election occurs during our lifetime, after we have faith, just as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 teaches.

There is no verse that mentions "effectual call." So yet another made up doctrine.

Again, rather than admit Matthew 23:13 teaches unregenerate men were seeking God, and therefore total spiritual inability is mistaken doctrine, Convicted1 throws out non-germane verses to change the subject and evade truth. 1 Cor. 2:14 says unregenerates cannot understand "things of the Spirit." Calvinism rewrites it to say, "all things of the Spirit" rather than what what it actually teaches in context (2:14-3:3) which is "cannot understand some things of the Spirit, spiritual meat, but can understand spiritual milk. Likewise, Romans 9:16 says salvation does not depend upon men that will to be saved. And that is true, salvation depends on God. However, note that men do will to be saved, so the very verse cited by Convicted1 demonstrates total spiritual inability is mistaken doctrine.
And finally John 1:13 is cited but it teaches is that we are born anew, not because of the will of men, but of God. Again, that is true, but the fact remains we were chosen through faith in the truth, not chosen then given faith. Scripture after scripture demonstrates Calvinism is mistaken doctrine, just read it folks.

 

again, your main problem is the inability to grasp just how bad the fall made all of us, as spiritual dead in our sins means that we were unable to hear/respond to God apart from His divine work towards us!

 

You keep repeating this without teaching it. I asked you.......

"Could you please explain what that means? Begin with Adam, show from the scripture how Adam was unable to hear God and respond to God after he sinned and spiritually died. And then you can go to Cain, and explain how he was not able to respond to God".

 

I don't know why none of us can pound one iota of sense through your concrete blocked head!! :BangHead:

From the beginning....it flows with the rest of the bible....


Psalm 119:159-161 (YLT)

"See, for thy precepts I have loved, Jehovah, According to Thy kindness quicken me. The sum of Thy word [is] truth, And to the age [is] every judgment of Thy righteousness! Princes have pursued me without cause, And because of Thy words was my heart afraid." ("And to the ages" is translated "from the beginning" in the KJV)


Isaiah 41:3-5 (YLT)

"He pursueth them, he passeth over in safety A path with his feet he entereth not. Who hath wrought and done, Calling the generations from the first? I, Jehovah, the first, and with the last I [am] He. Seen have isles and fear, ends of the earth tremble, They have drawn near, yea, they come." ("Calling the generations from the first" is translated "from the beginning" in the KJV)



Isaiah 48:2-4Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

"For from the Holy City they have been called, And on the God of Israel been supported, Jehovah of Hosts [is] His name. The former things from that time I declared, And from my mouth they have gone forth, And I proclaim them, Suddenly I have done, and it cometh. From my knowing that thou art obstinate, And a sinew of iron thy neck, And thy forehead brass." ("From the beginning" in the KJV)


Mark 10:5-7 (YLT)

"And Jesus answering said to them, `For the stiffness of your heart he wrote you this command, but from the beginning of the creation, a male and a female God did make them; on this account shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife,



"From the beginning" is akin to "from the foundation", "from before the foundation" of the world...

 

You are really laying out some unshakable truths found in the Scriptures. Keep up the good work rightly dividing the word of truth. :thumbsup:

 

Why bother? I quit trying. It's like discussing these things with a wall.

Again, I see what James White meant when he made up a new word to refer to the KJVO errors; "Drare", the "dogged repetition of already refuted errors."

 

James White also calls it the "Anti-Calvinist Derangement Syndrome."

 

Go to Jesus first, and then to His Apostles, as ALL of them pointed out that we are sinners, and that unless the Lord himself chose to intervene on our behalf, and gave us the actual means to come to Christ...

 

It's ok brother, no one else can deal with Adam and Cain either. Just continue to ignore it and maybe it will go away.

 

man have alwats sought out God, in the sense know thru creation and their own conscious that he must exist, but refuse to come to him his way, the cross, and so we have all kinds of false religions and ways sinners made up to get to God!

 

Amen! I thought you believed in Calvin's Total Depravity, which declares man cannot seek God without regeneration. Maybe you have come to see the truth now in Adam and Cain.

 

No, it does n ot mean that fallen man cannot seek after God, but that their seeking will be after a false god, one of their own creation, as being sinners, will refuse to come to the true One by the Cross!

 

That is dumb, you are playing word games. We are speaking about seeking the One True God, Jesus Christ. In which Adam responded to AFTER the fall and Cain sought AFTER the fall. I seems Calvin did not consider the full counsel of God's Word when coming to his theological conclusions. Maybe you can explain Cain for us so that he fits into Calvinism's pov?? Were Adam and Cain speaking to a false God in Genesis?

 

No, but the truth remains the same, that it takes God Himself to disclose Himself to sinners in a special revelation by the Holy Spirit enabling them to know who jesus is, and what his death meant for them, and what the Gospel message really means to them!

 

The truth is in the facts. Adam and Cain were able to respond to God while unregenerated. You simply refuse to accept the Scripture which contradicts TULIP.