“Behold, from henceforth All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed” - Questions Often Ask

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jacob Dahlen, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. Jacob Dahlen

    Jacob Dahlen
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    Q.: Why do you pray to the Mother of God?

    A.: Since Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead, conquering death for us, there is no reason why we cannot ask those in heaven to pray for us just as we ask those still living on earth for their prayers. After all, in Christ all are alive. Therefore we ask the Ever-Virgin Mary to pray to her Son for us, just as we also ask the angels, the saints ,and all faithful believers here on earth to pray on our behalf, as Scripture Commands us to do: "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men... I will therefore, that men pray everywhere (I Tim. 2:1,8). We turn readily to our friends and neighbors to ask for their prayers in our time of need; are not those in heaven even more our friends than those on earth? Why should they not intercede for us also before the throne of God?



    Q.: Why do Orthodox Christians call the Virgin Mary "Mother of God"? This term seems to imply that God is not the creator and origin of all things.

    A. We call the Holy Virgin Mary the Mother of God (from the Greek, Theotokos: literally, the "Birth giver of God") because it is Scriptural: the righteous Elizabeth addressed the Virgin with these words: "And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43). Who is this "Lord" of which Elizabeth speaks-? It is Christ, the Lord God. For this reason we say, correctly, that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God. She is not the Mother of God the Father, but' the Mother of God the Son, who was begotten by the Father before all ages, and took flesh from the Virgin Mary. (See also the "Holy Fathers" page, elsewhere in this issue.)



    Q.: Why do Orthodox Christians give so much honor to the Mother of God?

    A.: We honor her because Jesus Christ Himself honored her on several occasions recorded in Scripture. He fulfilled her requests and also gave her special thought even while He was dying on the cross (Luke 2:51; John 2:3-9; John 19:26-27). Even before Christ was born, she was honored by heaven when the Archangel Gabriel appeared and said to her: "Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:28). Holy Scripture further proclaims of her that "henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48), because from her womb came forth God in the flesh. This means that all who believe in Christ and in the Bible must give special honor and veneration to the one that is "blessed among women." It is not enough to merely give attention to her at Christmas-time, when she appears in the manger scenes of western Christian churches. No, this "highly favored one" must occupy a very special place in the hearts of those that follow her Son, just as she did among the first Christians.



    Q.: Didn't our Lord, during His earthly life, sometimes place His mother (and His other kinsmen) in a decidedly secondary position, emphasizing spiritua1 virtues over kinship according to the flesh?

    A.: No one who accepts the Gospel can believe that our Lord was in any way lacking respect for His mother. Any seeming disrespect on His part can only be due to a faulty, superficial interpretation of Scripture, due sometimes to 'understandably imperfect translations into modern languages.

    When, for example, at the marriage of Cana, His mother tells Him: “They have no wine,” and our Lord replies: "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:l)--one must understand that although the word "woman" might sound disrespectful in modern English, it was not so in the ancient East; it is the very word our Lord used to address His mother as He was dying on the Cross and entrusted her to His beloved disciple (John 19: 26). His ,words to her at the marriage feast in no way indicate disrespect, but only emphasize the importance of the miracle which was to follow (the changing of water into wine) --a miracle which He indeed performed at her request.

    When our Lord extends the concept of spiritual kinship to all those who "do the will of ' God," (Mark 3:34-5) He does not deny such a higher kinship to His own family; we know of several of His kinsmen who were Apostles (James, Jude, Simon), and especially "blessed'' in this spiritual kinship, of course, was His own mother, of whom alone does the Scripture say that "all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48). Again, when a certain woman praises His mother for being the one who bore Him, and our Lord says, "Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it" (Luke 11:28), He is a higher degree of veneration for His mother: she is blessed not 0nly for bearing Him in the flesh, but even move for being one who "hears the word of God and keeps it."



    Q.' Yet in your church services I have heard Orthodox Christians call on the Mother of God to "save" them. How can she "save" anyone, since Christ is the only Savior?

    A.: We believe that there is only one Lord God and Saviour of mankind, Jesus Christ, No one is equal to Him, and no one but Him can save mankind. We do not turn to Mary, the Mother of Christ our God as to a saviour, and we certainly do not put her on the same level as her Son, but we turn to her as to one who helps us by her prayers, just as St. Paul himself said that he had become all things to all men, "that I might by all means and in any way save them" (I Cot. 9:22). St. Paul was not claiming to usurp Christ as the saviour; he merely wanted to help and strengthen others on the path to salvation. It is in this sense that we Orthodox Christians say, "Most Holy Mother of God save us"--that is, "Please help us toward salvation by your prayers."

    Based upon the Missionary Handbook Series, "On Questions ot the Orthodox Christian Faith Disputed by Sectarians (Protestants)'', by Fr. Deacon J. Smolin, serialized in Orthodox Life, Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, N.Y.)
     
  2. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso
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    CHAP. 5 THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL


    We shall begin this chapter with a biblical examination of the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. After which, we will discuss how this doctrine separates humanity from Christ, as do all the non biblical doctrines of the church of Rome.

    1 Tim 6:14-16 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    As is obvious, from the above scriptures, if God alone has immortality, then the human soul cannot. The idea that every human being that is born into the world will exist for eternity from that point on, whether in the flesh, or in some other form, is not biblical. If in fact, there were no death, that is the end of life, nonexistence, then why do the scriptures make the promise of eternal life to the believer so very many times? This would be a silly promise to make to beings that are already immortal.

    I Jn 5:10-12 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    God has given us eternal life through his Son. This is not something we posses in and of ourselves, but only as we believe in the Son of God. The Lord Jesus Christ, who became one of us, is also verily God, and therefore immortal. If we attach ourselves to him, then we to have immortality. This is not however, on account of anything in us, but only because we have accepted the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in our own lives, that the life of the Son might also be in us. Thus the believer inherits eternal life on account of the Son. ( Rom. 6:5-11 )

    John 3:14-16 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    per·ish (pµr“¹sh) v. per·ished, per·ish·ing, per·ish·es. --intr. 1. To die or be
    destroyed, especially in a violent or untimely manner. 2. To pass from existence; disappear gradually. 3. Chiefly British. To spoil or deteriorate. --tr. To bring to destruction; destroy. --idiom. perish the thought. Used to express the wish that one not even think about something.

    The contrast made in the above verses cannot be mistaken. Those who believe in the Son of man will not perish, but will have eternal life. To perish, is to die, to be destroyed, to pass from existence. This truth is repeated two times in a row by the Son of God. The opposite of eternal life, is death, which is non existence. To perish, and to live on through eternity burning in hell, are two very different things. If you have life, then you are alive. It doesn't matter where you are, or what is happening to you, life is life. Non existence is not life. These two things are opposites, and the Lord Jesus Christ uses them to show the difference between believers, and non believers. Non believers will not have life in any form.

    1 Cor 15:51-54 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    The apostle Paul points out clearly when the saved will receive immortality. It is at the resurrection, that is the second coming of Christ, that the saved will receive immortality. Those who must receive immortality, obviously do not posses it in and of themselves. It is at Christ's appearing that death is swallowed up in victory, not before. True enough, eternal life is secure now, for all the saved, but eternal life will not begin until the appointed time.

    Death is swallowed up in victory, when the dead are raised and changed from mortal to immortal at the second coming. If in fact, those who die in Christ go right to heaven to be with Christ for eternity, the above verses would make no sense at all. In fact, the bible would be filled with verses that make no sense at all. A biblical doctrine must be based upon the scriptures as a whole, not just a few verses here and there. While there are a few verses in the bible, that seem to suggest the possibility of the immortality of the soul, the scriptural evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

    1 Cor 15:16-26 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    Here again, the apostle Paul makes it clear, that if their is no resurrection, then all who have fallen asleep, (or died) in Christ are perished. Verse twenty two points out that as all have died in Adam, so will all be made alive in Christ. Verse twenty three points out when all will be made alive, at Christ's coming. The last enemy to be destroyed is death, which is destroyed at the second coming. Again, if the dead in Christ are already alive and in heaven with him, then the above verses not only make no sense, but are a lie. Either the scriptures which we have been discussing are a lie, or the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a lie.

    Rom 6:22-23 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Verse twenty three brings out the contrast again, which cannot be mistaken. The wages of sin is death, which is non existence, not eternal life in hell. On the contrary, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Is God a cheap giver? Would he try to pass off on us something that we already have as a gift that we should appreciate so very much? Of course not. God is not a liar, and his word is the truth. Eternal life is a gift from God to the saved, not something that every individual already has in and of themselves. This is exactly the issue at hand, will we die from the sin of Adam and Eve in the garden or not? Pay attention to the following verses.

    Gen 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Gen 3:1-5 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
    2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
    3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    This is the issue at hand. Is God a liar, or is Satan a liar? What do you think? The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is nothing more than the perpetuation of the first lie which Satan told to the human race. It is an affront to God, and an issue which God himself will address personally at his second coming, and again at the second resurrection. Make no mistake about it, the soul is not immortal. Those who refuse the gift of God in and through his Son, will not have life.

    Those who accept this lie as the truth are calling God a liar, as the Devil did, and does continually, for he is the father of lies. To accept this doctrine as truth, is to undermine the authority of God, and separate oneself from him alone who hath immortality. I do not speak of those who believe it in ignorance, but those who refuse the truth of scripture in favor of that which they prefer to believe. Ignorance however, will be no excuse for those who have opportunity to know the truth, but do not care enough to find out about it.

    John 8:44 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    God alone has immortality. The original sin of Satan was that he wanted to be God, in his place. He may claim immortality for himself, and wish to perpetuate this lie through any means possible, but it will be to no avail. He will come to a complete end. As will all who follow his example. Anyone who claims that they have an immortal soul is defying God, just as Satan himself did, and does to this day. Are you God? If you say that your soul is immortal, then you are saying that you are God, since God alone hath immortality. What more can an individual do, to separate themselves from God? Notice the following.

    Isa 14:12-15 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    Satan is the father of this mind set. He is the original one who wanted to be like God, without being in submission to God. He wanted to be God. Therefore he loves and perpetuates the lie of the immortality of the soul. If in fact, he is immortal, then he is in fact God. All those who believe this mind set are following in his footsteps. Unlike God, Satan does not care how he gets followers, as long as he gets them. If he can trick people into following him by getting them to believe a lie, that’s fine. If he can get people to think that they are worshipping God, when they are really worshipping him, that’s great. Don't follow Satan unwillingly, by believing his lies.

    The following scriptures are a dual prophecy concerning the king of tyrus and Satan. It is obvious from their content, that they refer to the devil himself, his fall from heaven, and his ultimate end.

    Ezek 28:12-19 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;
    and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Satan himself will be no more. So will be the fate of all who refuse the gift which God is offering them through his son. Do not allow Satan to separate you from Christ, through whom you have eternal life, by believing this doctrine of the church of Rome.
     
  3. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso
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    CHAP. 6 SLEEP OF THE DEAD


    If the soul is not immortal, just what does happen when someone dies? Let us examine the scriptures to see what they say about this important subject.

    Eccl 9:5-10 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
    6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
    7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
    8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
    9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
    10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

    According to Solomon, the wisest man on earth, the dead know not anything. All of their feelings, emotions, and knowledge are perished. For all intentional purposes then, they basically do not exist, which is what death is, non existence. The bible however, refers to the dead in a more politically correct way, if you will, one that is easier for us to accept. The bible refers to the dead as being asleep from one end of it to the other. This is a fit description, since sleep is a state of unconsciousness. A person that is sleeping has no awareness at all of what is going on in the world around them, nor are they able to participate in anything in the world around them.

    Job 14:10-15 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
    11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
    12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
    13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
    14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
    15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee:
    thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

    Job referred to the dead as sleeping. He even referred to the resurrection, when the Lord would call forth those in the grave. The change he speaks of in verse fourteen is no doubt the change from mortal to immortal at Christ's second coming.

    Dan 12:1-2 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Daniel also spoke of the dead as asleep. Verse two is unquestionably a reference to the resurrection at the second coming.

    Ps 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

    David also referred to death as a sleep. All through the old testament those who died were referred to as sleeping with their fathers. The same terminology is used in the new testament, and even by Christ himself on both occasions when raising the dead.

    Luke 8:52-56 52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
    53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
    54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
    55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
    56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

    John 11:11-15 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
    13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
    14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
    15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

    Jesus did not say that either of the people he raised from the dead were in heaven, or hell, but simply that they were asleep. Notice what Martha said to Jesus when he went to her and Mary to raise their brother from the grave.

    John 11:20-25 20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
    21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
    22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
    23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
    24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    Martha understood that the those who sleep in the grave will be called forth from the grave in the last day at the resurrection. Jesus told her, " I am the resurrection, and the life " and then proceeded to prove it by raising her brother, who had been in the tomb for four days. This same thing Jesus will do again for all those who have died in him, when he returns again. Observe the following.

    1Thes 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    In the above scriptures concerning the resurrection, the apostle Paul refers to the dead as sleeping three times. In the previous chapter we quoted some other verses from Paul’s writings that also addressed the resurrection, the dead are referred to as sleeping in these verses also. As previously stated, in order to establish a biblical doctrine, the scriptures must be considered in their entirety. Anyone can take just a few verses, and make them say whatever they wish. Although there are a few verses that seem to suggest that the dead are conscious, the overwhelming weight of scriptural evidence from one end of the bible to the other is to the contrary. These few verses are being misunderstood, and miss applied.

    It is of course a doctrine of the church of Rome, that the dead go to heaven, hell, or purgatory at death. The writer will not even waste any time addressing the false doctrine of purgatory. However, by teaching that the saints are alive and in heaven now, the church of Rome again separates humanity from Christ. Those who accept her teachings, pray to certain of the Saints, Mary in particular. By praying to the dead, these deluded souls have been separated from the only one who can hear and answer their prayers, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone who mediates between man and God the Father in his sanctuary in heaven. The bible condemns communication with the dead for a very good reason. As already pointed out, the dead know not anything. This being the case, those who think they are communicating with the dead, must really be communicating with someone else. That someone else is certainly not God, for he condemns the act. To be sure, Satan and his angles will answer as the dead to those wishing to communicate with the dead, whenever God himself allows it.

    Lev 19:31 31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

    Lev 20:6 6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

    Deut 18:10-12 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

    1 Chr 10:13-14 13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
    14 And inquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

    One of the reasons God allowed Saul to be killed, and turned his kingdom over to David, was because he sought communication with the dead. It is obvious from this incident, that one who seeks communication with the dead, is not seeking communication with God. Nor is it God who answers the prayers of one who prays to the dead. Since the Devil is the father of this lie, that is the immortality of the soul, it is only right, that if anyone, he should answer those who accept this lie by seeking communication with the dead.

    Isa 8:19-20 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    The present Pope believes that Mary saved his life when an attempt was made to assassinate him years ago. He leans heavily upon her intercession for his church, and humanity as a whole. Mary is dead, she knows not anything, and is incapable of doing anything for anybody. Millions of Roman Catholics around the world are praying to dead people that cannot help them in any way. They should be praying to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is able to save to the uttermost, all who call upon his name. Sadly, they have been taught to rely upon others. No doubt, Satan himself will and does do all he can to support this lie, for he is the father of it.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    So no 'praying to the dead'.

    (Or as Paul calls them in 1Thess 4 "The dead in Christ")

     
  5. neal4christ

    neal4christ
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    Bob, you may want to check out some context before you toss out verses. [​IMG]

    By the way, how have you been? I haven't been around here in quite a while!

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  6. nate

    nate
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    I agree and call Mary: Mother of God, and Ever Virgin, although I think there are good arguements against and for Mary being a Virgin her entire life. But there is no need to pray to her, not when we can pray directly to Christ. There is absolutely no Scriptural support for praying to the dead; saints,Mary or anyone else.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    No Bible author - zilch - none - zero - ever calls Mary "The Mother of God" -- not once!!

    Not ONCE is Mary said to be sinless in scripture - not once!!

    Not ONCE is Mary prayed to in all of scripture - not ONCE!

    Not once is anyone ever told to pray to the dead in all of scripture - not ONCE!!

    The idea of "using error as if it exaults God" is simply a "device" to introduce error.

    God the Son was not PROCREATED - He was INCARNATED -- so the RC habit of using PROCREATION terms for God when speaking of Mary is simply a "device" for introducing error.

    Hence "prayers to Mary"
    Hence "Mary allpowerful like God"
    Hence "Prayers offerred at Mary's Altars"
    Hence "Mary Queen of Heaven"
    Hence "Mary at whose command even God obeys"
    Hence Mariolatry!
     
  8. BobRyan

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    The entire argument for the assumption of Mary is based on the error "Mary is sinless like God and so she should have been assumed into Heaven after being raised bodily from the dead -- Like Christ".

    And of course - when Mary is raised - the disciples all "fly in from out of town"!!
     
  9. Eliyahu

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    Jacob,

    1) Is Mary Omni-Present time-wise?
    Is she still living troughout the ages, ancient times, medieval, modern times, today?

    2) Is Mary Omni-Present space-wise, to accept the prayers from all over the world, from 1.3 billion Roman Catholic? Since when did she becoem so powerful ? Is she not sleeping while she accepts the prayers from Alaska and from Africa and Europe?
    She may feel sleepy now or may be slumbering now! Let her sleep, please!

    3) Is Mary Omni-sicent? When we pray about traffic accidents, does she understand what are the automobiles because there was no car at her times? Does she know about computers when you pray for a computer problems? Does she understand about geopgraphy?
    Why did she go to the tomb with the perfumes after Jesus was resurrected? Did she know about the resurrection before His resurrection?

    4) Is Mary Omni-Potent? I hope you don't need an explanation about this.

    5) What was the purpose of the Mary's visit in Matt 12:46-50? Why did she go to Jesus with the unbelieving brothers of Jesus?
    Was Mary coming to listen to the teachings of Jesus? Or did she try to teach Him?
    Isn't it too much groundless if I say that Mary went there to say Jesus " Hey, your reputation is too bad among the people, and therefore please don't talk about the gospel too much, or stop it! Otherwise, we are in bad shape among the people now." Why was Mary not among the people who were listening to Jesus, if you claim she was ever-virgin and had no other child than Jesus?
    Who did Jesus say are the true mothers and brothers of His ?

    5) Is Mary alone blessed among the women?
    Luke 11:27
    a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it . Do you not understand this passage ?

    6) Is Mary Mother of God? Was Elizabeth calling Mary the Mother of God?
    Sarah called Abraham " Lord" 1 Pet 3:6. So, Was Abraham God ?

    7) If Mary is Mother of God, Is she Mother of God the Father ? Is Mary Mother of God the Holy Spirit? If you say No. Then are you splitting Godheads into 3 pieces while you say Three-Unity of Godheads? If you deny Trinity, Don't you think it is Anathema?

    8) Was Mary Ever-Virgin? Where is such proof?
    Was Mary absent in the scene of Cross?
    Mark 15:40
    Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome. ( James and Joses was mentioned in Mk 6:3 exactly)
    Mark 15:47
    Mary mother of Joses beheld where He was laid.

    Mark 16:1 Mary, mother of James.

    Was Mary less important to mention in the Bible than those women and therefore she was omitted in the Bible?

    9) Didn't Mary obey to her husband in the marital relationship as instructed in 1 Cor 7:2-4

    Wife has not power ofg her own body, but the husband..

    Was she rebellious to her husband ?
    Were the couple a kind of people as disguised as couple?

    10 Why do you make statues for Mary? Are they not statues? Are the statues bleeding like this?


    http://www.najumary.or.kr/mary/signs/tearsofblood.htm


    Somebody picked up the blood from there and got it tested at the Lab. (What a blasphemy to the Holy Mother!) The result showed it was the blood of a pig! ( Did Mary become a pig now according to the Buddhist Nirvanah ?)

    [ March 11, 2006, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]
     
  10. D28guy

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    More ammunition to use to prove the Catholics/Orthodox idolatrous worship of Mary.

    That statement clearly identifies the protestant/evangelical/pentecostal view of Mary.

    We call her blessed and always have, because she was.

    She was clearly blessed to be the one God used to bring Christ into the world in human form. The angel called her blessed as we always have.

    If the Catholic/Orthodox view were true, that statement would be...

    "Henceforth all generations will bow down to images of, and worship, the all powerful and all hearing protectress of humanity the Queen of Heaven and Queen of the Universe Mary."

    But it doesnt say anything like that.

    It simply says...

    "All generations will call me blessed"

    And we protestants always have.

    Mike
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Indeed - the blessed mother of Christ. Never "the Mother of God" Never -- 'Sinless like Christ' - NEVER "queen of heaven".

    And not a single text in all of scripture where anyone prays to Mary in heaven or where Mary tells anyone to pray to the dead!
     
  12. DHK

    DHK
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    Judges 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.
    --I guess Mary wasn't the only one, was she?
     
  13. DHK

    DHK
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    Genesis 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

    This is a tremendous blessing. Rebekah was blessed, and received a blessing to be the mother of thousands of millions.

    Mary was not the only one that was blessed above women. In fact Rebekah was blessed above men and women. That is a greater blessing.
    DHK
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    DHK,

    Now ya done gone and done it. Some crazy religion will start worshipping Rebekkah and making her a co-redemptrix like the RC did with Mary.
     
  15. music4Him

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    Matthew 6:6-9 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
    7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
    8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.


    Nope don't see Mary mentioned there. So being that Jesus taught us how to pray should'nt we obey Him. [​IMG]
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    I would say that since the Son of God gave us the model example of prayer, we should follow that example.

    Recognize God for His position, His Holiness.
    Pray for His Will in our lives.
    Pray for provisions.
    Pray for forgiveness for offenses to others and to God.
    Pray for God's hand of Providence to keep us from temptation and from doing evil
    Admit that God is in charge. All authority in the believer's life is His.
     
  17. DeclareHim

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    The one thing I respect about the Orthodox Church is the fact they do allow dissenting view points. This contrary to the RCC. For instance if I was Orthodox I wouldn't have to pray to Mary or dead saints. The thing is how willing are you to compromise? Unfortunately I'm just not that willing.
     
  18. Athanasian Creed

    Athanasian Creed
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    Mary was indeed "highly favoured" and "blessed AMONG women" (not above all women). She was the mother of the incarnate Son of God NOT the 'Mother of God' for God is eternal, uncreated and is Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh -

    Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law...In human nature; born of a woman. This also implies that he had another nature than that which was derived from the woman.


    Ray [​IMG]
     
  19. Eliyahu

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    Excellent Point [​IMG]
     
  20. Eliyahu

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    Excellent Point again! [​IMG]

    Good verses to remember with Genesis 24:60
     

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