1 Cor 12:13

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by UZThD, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. UZThD

    UZThD
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    I will not call you names if you disagree w-me.

    Good folks disagree on this text:

    Baker--NO reference whatsover to water bap but Spirit and We all experience Spirit bap today.

    Carroll--this is about SP . But no one experiences it today.

    Roberstson--an inward experience is symbolized by water baptism.

    IMO the text refers to WB and becoming a part of the physical church.

    1) The Body IS the Church. 12:27,28.

    2) The Church, the Body, has (physical) gifted people who minister to the physical church (12:28-30;14:1) Therefore the church is NOT just "spiritual."

    3) By "church" in this letter Paul means the local assembly or assemblies (11:18;1:2;4:17;7:17;11:16;14:19;14:23;16:1;16:19) He does refer in these to a universal, spiritual Body! Therefore, that which unites one to the Body may be physical too!

    4)This meaning also is in other P. texts (Rom 16:1;Philem 2; 2 Cor 8:1; Col 4:15; Acts 20:17; 1 Thess 1:1; 1Yim 5:16)

    5)Elsewhere in 1 Cor Paul refers to WB and says it should unify the Body (1:13-17)

    6) The other ordinence of the Supper also should unify the Body (10:17)

    7) Paul no where else develops a doctrine which he calls "Spirit bap." The word "Spirit" is not in such texts as Gal 3:26,27 or Rom 6:3,4 or Col 2:12. So why should we assume he is doing so here?

    8) That WB brings members into the church is consistent w- Mt 28:19;Acts 2:41;16:31-34

    9) But in 12:31 the HS appears to be the Agent as He is in the preceding verses:3,8,9,11. So, how can this be WB?

    But why not ? IF the HS gives spiritual gifts for the physical church why not also should He be involved in joining members to the physical church?

    The HS may use preachers and teachers and healers, so why should He not use baptizers?

    10) This view does not require that WB be salvific as:

    a) It is the faith which is expressed in WB which saves as Gal 3:26,27 and Eph 5:26 show .

    So, that is my opinion. I welcome yours and promise not to call you names if you disagree.

    Bill
     
  2. rlvaughn

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    I agree with you, and won't call you a name either. :D
     
  3. Chad Whiteley

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    I agree as well. Bro. Vaughn, I thought I was the only one left who thought that water baptism places folks in the church. I think I Cor 12:13 is really clear to me. I find it cool that at least two people agree with my interpretation.
     
  4. exscentric

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    I disagree, but won't participate because I would find it difficult if we didn't call each other names - how would we distinguish ourselves from one another?

    :D
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    I disagree. Paul says we were "baptized by one Spirit." I don't know about you, but I know who water baptized me, and it wasn't the Spirit. Paul says "we were all" baptized. Yet not all have been water baptized. Paul says "we" were all baptized. Yet no one that I konw of believes that Paul was baptized at Corinth. So clearly, to me, Paul has in mind a bigger "body" into which we were baptized, the body of Christ invisible, not the local body of Christ. I agree with Robertson, that this is Spirit baptized that is symbolized by water baptism.
     
  6. DHK

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    1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, (ASV)
    I agree that it could refer to water baptism. The Greek word eis usually is translated in as it is here in the ASV, giving more credence to the view that in water baptism, as we enter the fellowship of the church, we are more in unity one with another. It is a local church context.
    DHK
     
  7. TCassidy

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    Why couldn't Paul have been talking about our being water baptized on the basis of the leading of the Holy Spirit? Even for those who believe in "Spirit Baptism" most of them recognize the active baptizer is not the Holy Spirit, but, according to Acts 1:5, the Holy Spirit is the medium in which the early church was baptized.
    All those who were members of the church at Corinth were certainly baptized, and that is who Paul is addressing, is it not?

    I think that is a bit of a stretch. Paul certainly was baptized at Antioch.
    Why couldn't Paul have been talking about being baptized into a local church? Those believers in the local church at Corinth, and Paul in the local church at Antioch.
    But in Spirit Baptism, according to Acts 1:5, the Spirit is not the (active voice) baptizer, but is the medium in which the early church was baptized. And I thought baptism was the symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, not some mythical "Spirit Baptism." [​IMG]
     
  8. UZThD

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  9. OldRegular

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    UZThD

    I believe 1 Corinthians 12:13 has to do with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the indwelling that occurs simultaneous with Salvation. That being the case the body to which Paul refers must be the total number of the redeemed.

    However, I believe that water baptism is in effect an initiation into the local body of believers, has nothing to do with salvation, but is an act of obedience toward Jesus Christ. Water baptism can and should occur after Salvation but is performed by man not the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. Artimaeus

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    Which local church does water baptism make you a member of. The church of the baptizer, the church of the majority of witnesses, the church which is nearest in location to the place of the baptism, the church closest to the home of the person being baptized? None of these questions are answered in scripture.

    I don't know that I have quoted Barnes much but, here goes.

    1Co 12:13 -
    For by one Spirit - That is, by the agency or operation of the same Spirit, the Holy Spirit, we have been united into one body. The idea here is the same as that presented above 1Co_12:7, 1Co_12:11, by which all the endowments of Christians are traced to the same Spirit. Paul here says, that that Spirit had so endowed them as to fit them to constitute one body, or to be united in one, and to perform the various duties which resulted from their union in the same Christian church. The idea of its having been done by one and the same Spirit is kept up and often presented, in order that the endowments conferred on them might be duly appreciated.
    Are we all - Every member of the church, whatever may be his rank or talents, has received his endowments from the same Spirit.
    Baptized into one body - Many suppose that there is reference here to the ordinance of baptism by water. But the connection seems rather to require us to understand it of the baptism of the Holy Spirit Mat_3:11; and if so, it means, that by the agency of the Holy Spirit, they had all been suited, each to his appropriate place, to constitute the body of Christ - the church. If, however, it refers to the ordinance of baptism, as Bloomfield, Calvin, Doddridge, etc. suppose, then it means, that by the very profession of religion as made at baptism, by there being but one baptism Eph_4:5, they had all professedly become members of one and the same body. The former interpretation, however, seems to me best to suit the connection.
    Whether we be Jews or Gentiles - There is no difference. All are on a level. In regard to the grand point, no distinction is made, whatever may have been our former condition of life.
    Bond or free - It is evident that many who were slaves were converted to the Christian faith. Religion, however, regarded all as on a level; and conferred no favors on the free which it did not on the slave. It was one of the happy lessons of Christianity, that it taught people that in the great matters pertaining to their eternal interests they were on the same level. This doctrine would tend to secure, more than anything else could, the proper treatment of those who were in bondage, and of those who were in humble ranks of life. At the same time it would not diminish, but would increase their real respect for their masters, and for those who were above them, if they regarded them as fellow Christians, and destined to the same heaven; see the note at 1Co_7:22.
    And have been all made to drink ... - This probably refers to their partaking together of the cup in the Lord’s Supper. The sense is, that by their drinking of the same cup commemorating the death of Christ, they had partaken of the same influences of the Holy Spirit, which descend alike on all who observe that ordinance in a proper manner. They had shown also, that they belonged to the same body, and were all united together; and that however various might be their graces and endowments, yet they all belonged to the same great family.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    Water baptism is an ordinance in Baptist Churches. If one asks for membership in a local Baptist Church and is baptised then they become a member of that local body of believers. In my opinion water baptism should not be practiced unless it is the rite of admission into a local body of believers.
     
  12. TCassidy

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    There are two ways to view baptism: the biblical way and the non-biblical way.

    Ephesians 4:5 tells us there is one baptism.

    The biblical way of viewing baptism is to see the one baptism as the water baptism commanded by scripture. The baptism of Acts 2 was a one time event when Christ baptized the church in the Holy Spirit, never to depart, and thus, never to be repeated.

    The non-biblical way to view baptism is to see, not one baptism but three baptisms.

    The first being the "baptism WITH the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2.

    The second is the "baptism BY the Holy Spirit" which is assumed from 1Cor 12:13.

    The third is water baptism as the Great Commission commands.

    I like the biblical way better. [​IMG]
     
  13. PASTOR MHG

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    That's funny TCassidy,

    By what authority do you make the claim that the "one baptism" is water baptism?

    The last time I checked their were seven different baptisms mentioned in the scriptures.

    Matthew 3 -
    1. John's baptism
    2. Jesus baptism with the Holy Ghost
    3. Jesus baptism with fire
    Acts 2 -
    4. Baptism by the Spirit
    Matthew 28-
    5. Believers' baptism
    1 Cor. 10 -
    6. Baptism unto Moses
    Matthew 20-
    7. Baptism of suffering

    Any other reference to baptism can be plugged into one of these 7. My question to you is why would water baptism be the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4?

    It would seem to me that the more appropriate interpretaion would be the act of the Holy Spirit placing us into the "body of Christ." I think the problem that most Baptist run into is not distinguishing between the "corporeal" and "corporate" body of Christ.

    When a man is regenerated he is placed into the "Body of Christ" by this act of the Holy Spirit. The act of the Holy Spirit does not however place him into the corporate "body of Christ." Baptism by water therefore is a picture, or should I say figure, of the "One True Baptism" that places you into the corporate body that is a picture of the corporeal "One True Body."

    One Baptism = Holy Spirit Baptism

    I Know that baptist have a tendency to run to far away from the terminology because of the fear of being lumped in with a teaching that sounds Pentecostal...But they are really not the same. Lets just let the Bible say what it says and not try to conform it to our theology...no matter how BAPTIST we are.

    My position has always been...when traditional baptist theology goes against the Scripture, chuck the traditional baptist theology in the trash.

    Just my thoughts,
    Max
     
  14. TCassidy

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    Its called "The Great Commission." You might have heard of it. [​IMG]
     
  15. PASTOR MHG

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    Its called "The Great Commission." You might have heard of it. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]That's your response to my post? Try addressing some of the points that were made.
     
  16. TCassidy

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    I did. The Great Commission commands US to baptize. The only type of baptism WE can do is water baptism. Ipso facto, the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 HAS to be water baptism.
     
  17. UZThD

    UZThD
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  18. UZThD

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    ===

    Thanks. I had enough of that in the Lordship Salvation thread [​IMG] .
     
  19. PASTOR MHG

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    So to use your logic,

    The only type of body WE can do is...
    The only type of Spirit WE can do is...
    The only type of hope WE can do is...
    The only type of Lord WE can do is...
    The only type of faith WE can do is...
    The only type of God WE can do is...

    Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Your logic falls apart at the feet of the Scriptures.

    And no, you have not addressed my post...that is unless you have nothing to say.
     
  20. PASTOR MHG

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