1 Timothy 3:2&12

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by James, Oct 1, 2001.

  1. James

    James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2000
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please, Some one tell me what "Husbands of one wife means.
    Is it that all must have the same wife ?

    that there should be only one wife, not a herem (more than one at a time) ?

    that he should never have been married before (divorced, widowed) ?

    that he has to be married (as opposed to single) ?

    So much contriversy over such a simple thing.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I Tim 3:2, 12 both use the phrase "mias gunaikos andra" (andres in 12 since it is plural. This is litterally "of one woman man" (men).

    A pastor and a deacon must be a "one woman man". I am a "one woman man". If my wife dies and I marry another person, I will then still be a "one woman man". If I divorce my wife for immorality or abandonment, thereby meeting Jesus' requirements that I am not in adultery, I may marry another person and still be a "one woman man".

    If, while married to my wife, I marry another woman, I am no longer a "one woman man". I am a "two woman man" and dumber than a bag of hammers.

    I certainly don't see why there is confusion in this area. God could have chosen many other words or phrases if it desired; He selected this (twice, no less) to place the emphasis right where it needed to be.

    And I am an historic ifb pastor for 30+ years. Hope this helps see one side of the argument. I'm sure others will jump in . .
     
  3. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob is right on the money. It means a one-woman man. It means commitment to one woman. Can a pastor be a widower? Yes. Can he remarry? Yes. Can he be divorced? Yes, as long as he was the innocent party. Can he be single and never married? Yes, so long as he has a mindset and intention of a one-woman man.
     
  4. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chris Temple said:

    Dr. Bob is right on the money. It means a one-woman man. It means commitment to one woman. Can a pastor be a widower? Yes. Can he remarry? Yes. Can he be divorced? Yes, as long as he was the innocent party. Can he be single and never married? Yes, so long as he has a mindset and intention of a one-woman man.

    It is also helpful to add, as an aside, that the lists of virtues in 1 Tim. for pastors and deacons shouldn't be taken merely as a checklist of requirements: "Not addicted to wine. Check. Above reproach. Check. One wife. Check. Congratulations, the job is yours." Paul is describing a kind of person, describing his character from a small sample of virtues. I think instinctively we all know this and accept it; no doubt there are a number of character traits Paul has not mentioned that would nonetheless disqualify some prospective elders and deacons in our churches.

    Think it through: all other things being equal, whom would you rather have as a pastor:


    1. <LI>a man who has been married twice, whose first marriage ended unhappily in a divorce in which he was at fault, but who is now genuinely contrite about his sins and wholly committed to his second wife; or
      <LI>a man who has been divorced and remarried three times, who is technically not at fault but seems wholly unconcerned about the fact that he has left three marriages behind him?

    I submit that the former figure better fits the picture of a one-woman man. The latter may be so, but only on a technicality.
     
  5. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:


    1. <LI>a man who has been married twice, whose first marriage ended unhappily in a divorce in which he was at fault, but who is now genuinely contrite about his sins and wholly committed to his second wife; or
      <LI>a man who has been divorced and remarried three times, who is technically not at fault but seems wholly unconcerned about the fact that he has left three marriages behind him?

    I submit that the former figure better fits the picture of a one-woman man. The latter may be so, but only on a technicality.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Very good; I agree. But I might add the second man may not be so innocent if he possesses that attitude! ;)
     
  6. John Wells

    John Wells
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me ask my esteemed brothers to dig a little deeper:

    A man is a complete scoundrel; has two or more divorces not necessarily based on infidelity, all before he receives Jesus Christ as his Savior. He repents of all his wrongdoings in marriage and everything else.

    As a new Christian and creation, he becomes a model believer, meets and marries a godly woman and both are totally committed to Christ. In your opinion, does this man qualify to become a deacon?
     
  7. david reed

    david reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,
    I fall into the second group you mentioned
    those who through no fault of thier own, find themselves divorced(immorality on my wife's part), yet if I were to marry again,
    how in the world could I still be considered a "one woman man" even though I would have two living wives. Please give me chapter and verse so that I may better understand your point. :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  8. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:

    As a new Christian and creation, he becomes a model believer, meets and marries a godly woman and both are totally committed to Christ. In your opinion, does this man qualify to become a deacon?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John:

    What about a preconversion murderer and blasphemer? That didn't seem to disqualify Paul from ministry:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I Tim 1:12 ΒΆ And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry,
    13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
    14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
    15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
    16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If he is born-again, and meets the biblical qualifications for a deacon, then he qualifies.
     
  9. Jefferson

    Jefferson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    Can he be divorced? Yes, as long as he was the innocent party.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, even if he was the guilty party. I think the context shows that conclusion. For example, if a decade ago a certain Christian was backslidden and a violent "brawler" but has lived a quiet, godly life for the past 10 years and decided he wanted to pastor a church, he now passes that character test. The same is true if a decade ago he was a drunkard or a dishonest man or any of the other disqualifications. Therefore when we come to the issue of "a one woman man" the logical flow of the text would also require the conclusion that if he has also not violated that principle for a decade that he should be allowed to pastor. To change the rules for just one character requirement from the list of many requirements would violate the logical interpretation of the passage.
     
  10. James

    James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2000
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you all for your comments; and please more, more.
    I am that man who was married to an adulterous wife (VERY) and tried to stay; but it ended in divorce.
    My second wife, whom I still get along with and am trying to be a "parent" to two step children that are not mine. (perfect gramer, hmmmmm)would not stay at home, that marriage ended in divorce.
    My third wife and I get along well even when we fight, (Pray for us, we are looking for a new church) we have had a good/bad marriage for 7 years now.
    The church we just left I served in as deacon (SBC Church) since "97. Some members left the Church because of me, but majority put me in. I have served them to my best, and have been open and friendly with those that left. (funny thing, they havent joind another church, they just don't go)
    I didn't leave the Church because of this, I left over differences of opinion and their ousting of an innocent Pastor who made a few small mistakes that did not warrant the action they took.

    Rambling,,,,,,,,that is what I do best.
    Basically what I wondered was what other opinions and learned responses were.

    Interestingly, My Pastor has stated that if the subject came up again he would ask the deacons to choose a wife to share.
    Scripture states "Husbands of one wife"

    Funny how words can be taken out of context.

    Hey y'all, HE LIVES !!!
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by david reed:
    Dr. Bob,
    I fall into the second group you mentioned
    those who through no fault of thier own, find themselves divorced(immorality on my wife's part), yet if I were to marry again,
    how in the world could I still be considered a "one woman man" even though I would have two living wives. Please give me chapter and verse so that I may better understand your point.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No you would not have "two living wives". You would have one living wife and one living ex-wife. Once you biblically divorce you are classified as "unmarried". If you had two wives, I'd send the cops over to arrest you! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

    To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

    To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.

    But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The phrase "is not bound" (slave, property of another) shows the complete and utter dissolution of the marriage. No ties in such cases.

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jefferson:


    Yes, even if he was the guilty party. I think the context shows that conclusion. For example, if a decade ago a certain Christian was backslidden and a violent "brawler" but has lived a quiet, godly life for the past 10 years and decided he wanted to pastor a church, he now passes that character test.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My only disagreement with this is the assumption that the man in question could be a violent brawler while being a Christian. It seems more like that behavior was preconversion, after which he lived in a Christian manner for 10 years. Preconversion sin would be irrelevant; however if Paul continued to blaspheme and be a violent agressor "after" conversion, that would have disqualified him.
     
  13. david reed

    david reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,
    Thanks for your input, however this is just an area in which I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Please don't take that the wrong way, but I just take a different
    view on this subject. I am not forcing my
    convictions on anyone, nor do I condemn those who take the view that you so eloquently expressed. I am involved in this
    area personaly as I told you in my last post
    so I would ask one huge favor of you, please pray for me. It has been 10 years since my
    wife ran away with another man. I was Pastoring at that time, and now I am an
    associate at the church where I serve. The Lord has been gracious and kind and has helped me, and continues to do so. I have no regrets in my service to Him. I have given Him my life, but I can always use another
    friend of my Best Friendtalking to Him on my behalf. Thank you and God Bless [​IMG]
     
  14. John Wells

    John Wells
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    The answer to my question has been confirmed to be what I knew in my heart. New creatures (born again) start over with a clean slate. It matters not what we have done prior to our "rebirth," but what we do with our newfound freedom in Christ! If a murderer like Paul could become an Apostle, and a lier/denyer like Peter also, then the qualifications for deacons/pastors come from our actions this side of salvation! ;)

    I know many Baptist churches however who will not ordain a divored man as a deacon, period!

    [ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     

Share This Page

Loading...