100 Women of the Century

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, May 16, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Some of you may have already seen this; I received it in my e-mail and thought I would pass it along. Whatever your reaction that is your own. Not putting it here so much for debate purposes just that we may reflect upon this information and what it means to be "American" if that is truly a term any more (which I doubt); personally I believe it is more correct to refer to ourselves as citizens of the United States of America. I believe this because Canada and Central and South America are evidently a part of the North American Continent and this makes those citizens "Americans" also. But this is maybe just how I feel. Just consider the article below.

    God Bless All
    Bro. Dallas Eaton II [​IMG]

    BAPTIST PULPIT MINISTRIES
    Ministry of LANDMARK BAPTIST CHURCH,
    RICHMOND HILL, ONTARIO, CANADA.
    Send mail to:
    48 Cobbler Crescent,
    North York, Ontario, Canada M3N 2Y7
    Dr. D. Paul Tuck Sr. - Pastor
    INDEPENDENT-LANDMARK-SOVEREIGN GRACE-PREMILLENNIAL- MISSIONARY BAPTIST
    Web Site for BPM -http://members.attcanada.ca/~bpulpit/index.html
    Landmark Baptist Bible Institute-Canada
    Free Bible Study on the Internet -
    Home Site - http://www.lbbi-canada.org/
    or - http://www.ourchurch.com/member/l/LBBI-Canada

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Theodore Tweet
    Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 5:16 PM
    To: "Undisclosed-Recipient
    Subject: Fw: REMEMBER JANE


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "BETTY L CROW"
    Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 8:43 AM
    Subject: Fw: REMEMBER JANE


    100 WOMEN OF THE CENTURY!!!!

    This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

    The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.

    He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the
    cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world
    that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms.
    Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you
    bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
    palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to
    the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men died from
    the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

    I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

    I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.

    RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF

    (edited to delete telephone numbers and e-mail addresses for privacy reasons. rk)

    [ May 16, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  2. bobfrgsn

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    When did Central and South America move? I think nationals in these various countries would use their country names to identify their citizenship. So you have a good suggestion ... except that American has come to be equivlent to citizen of the USA
     
  3. Caretaker

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    Amen Brother Frogman!!!

    Hanoi Jane should have been tried for treason long ago. Of course the list is made up by the liberals, and such the stench of iniquity doth abound. For instance Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinam are also on the list.

    In the case of Sanger one should research the term eugenics, and the 1927 Geneva council on World Population. The goal was to limit reproduction by those less desirable elements of the population. Hitler carried out eugenics to a natural conclusion.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  4. bobfrgsn

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    Dear Caretaker and Frogman... Don't you think that if you are going to post something about another fellow sister in Christ that you should at least have your facts straight? Seems the Christian way.. don't you think?


    There's no disputing that Jane Fonda toured North Vietnam, propagandized on behalf of the communists, and participated in an orchestrated "press conference" with American POWs in 1972. There's no denying that she defamed POWs by whitewashing the Viet Cong's treatment of them and later calling them liars when they spoke out.
    But how true are the further allegations in these email rumors? Let's examine their veracity point by point, beginning with the most serious:
    • Claim: Fonda betrayed POWs by turning over slips of paper they gave her to their captors. POWs were beaten and died as a result.
    • Status: FALSE.
    "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, whom I reached by phone at his home in Arizona. Carrigan, who was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, says he has no idea why this story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.
    He confessed that he did see Jane Fonda once while he was a POW – on film. The occasion was a night when Carrigan and the other 80 or so men he was interned with were called out into the prison courtyard – "the first time we'd been outside under the stars in 5 or 6 years." As the men stood there wondering what was in store for them, a movie projector began whirring behind them. Their captors were showing them footage of Fonda's 1972 visit to Hanoi.
    • Claim: A POW spit at Fonda, for which he was brutally beaten.
    • Status: FALSE.
    This story is attributed in the email to former Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll, who says it's false and did not originate from him. I wasn't able to speak with him directly, but Mike McGrath and Paul Galanti, fellow officers of the Nam-POWs organization to which Driscoll belongs, told me he unequivocally disavows the story.
    [UPDATE: After this commentary was written I received personal confirmation from Jerry Driscoll that the story is indeed bogus – as he put it, "the product of a very vivid imagination."]
    Mike McGrath, currently serving as the president of Nam-POWs, has worked hard to help Driscoll and Carrigan squelch the false rumors circulating under their names.
    "They would like to get their names removed but the story seems to have a life of its own," he told me. "There are a lot of folks out there who would love to have a story like that to hang their hat and their hate on."
    • Claim: POWs were beaten for refusing to cooperate or meet with Fonda during her visit.
    • Status: TRUE.
    The final anecdote in the "Hanoi Jane" email recounts the experience of a POW who agreed to meet with Fonda but announced to his captors that he planned on telling her how horrid conditions in North Vietnamese prison camps really were.
    "Because of this," the narrative continues, "I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a piece of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped."
    Those words were written by Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. When I contacted him, Benge confirmed that the story was indeed his own, and true.
    Benge's original statement, entitled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs. The nameless, faceless author of the "Hanoi Jane" email evidently picked it up from that or another Web page or newsgroup and combined it with fabricated stories to create the much-forwarded message. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name appended, others quote his statement anonymously.
    'None of us are members of the Jane Fonda Fan Club'
    A good cause is never well served by lies, and that's how all of the ex-POWs I spoke or corresponded with about the falsehoods in this message felt. Paul Galanti said: "None of us are members of the Jane Fonda Fan Club, but these fabrications are something she just did not do."
    No one had an answer to the questions, "Who made up these stories, and why?" but both Carrigan and McGrath expressed serious doubt that it was a POW.
    "She did enough to place her name in the trash bin of history," McGrath explained. "None of us need to make up stories on her."
    Jane Fonda could not be reached for comment.
    Last updated: 01/27/03

    Read the whole story here.

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm
     
  5. christine

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    I read about this also, but it was on a site called truth or myth (something like that). It was declared a myth.
    Christine
     
  6. pdp27

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    Despite the fact that these email anecdotes may of may not be true, it is a fact that Hanoi Jane gave aid and comfort to the enemy. She used her celebrity status protest the war on the soil of the enemy, while propagating lies about the condition of our POWs.

    It is also factual that she gleefully sat in the seat of an anti-aircraft weapon.

    As far as I know, she has offered no apologies or displayed remorse for her actions.

    Edit: Bobfrgsn, I didn't read your post fully as I see you have also noted her actual crimes while disputing the emails. My apologies.
     
  7. Wisdom Seeker

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    I personally saw her do an interview on television where she was asked about this, and she expressed her shame, her remorse and her deep appologies. I believe it was on a Barbara Walters Interview, and was several years ago.

    I was born in 1962, so I was pretty young when this happened.

    You may or may not choose to believer she was sincere. But to my decernment, there was something real about the sadness in her eyes when she spoke of it with regret. She referred to her actions as "stupid".

    Not that this will probably matter to anyone, but she was pretty young when all of this happened. Who among us hasn't done something that we are profoundly ashamed of and sorry for from our youth that we have to live with for the rest of our lives? If God can forgive, why can't people? This happened when I was a child...and I'm middle aged now. Well...anyhow that's how I feel about it.
     
  8. bobfrgsn

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    quoting pdp

    Not only did she apologize (see wisdom seeker) she became a born again Christian a few years ago and I am thinking that that is what ended her marriage to Ted Turner. I violently opposed the needless slaughter of both Vietnamise and G. I. and the whole war ... but there is nothing to justify Fonda's action. But as some of those who were falsely quoted we should deal in truth .... which in her case was bad enough.
     
  9. Frogman

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    My dad was also young when he was in Vietnam.

    Whether anyone believes these things or not doesn't matter to me. I do think though that she should be disqualified for consideration of being among the 100 women of the Century. If there is no other women qualified for consideration, then there should only be 99.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  10. Caretaker

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    I would say she should have forgiveness if she has repented, and she is a sister IF she has truly come to Christ. As with Frogman she should not be considered one of the 100, for is it not for her "activism" during Vietnam, that she is on the list in the first place?

    The list appears to be composed for liberals by liberals. For myself I would nominate Rachel Saint, who took the Gospel to the Auca Indians of Ecuador, after her husband Nate and the others were speared to death by the very ones she eventually led to salvation.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

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    (I second that nomination Drew) [​IMG]

    Very true. Those who had friends and family die in Viet Nam may forgive Hanoi Jane; but unlike God, we will never forget. [​IMG]
     
  12. pdp27

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    WisdomSeeker & Bobfrgsn,

    It's good to know I was wrong about her apology. Thanks for the info.

    Paul
     

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