2 Thes 2 v 7

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by prionseas, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. prionseas

    prionseas
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    2 Thes 2 v 7
    Who is the "He" in 2Thess 2v7
    In 2Thess 2v7 commentators differ as to the identity of the one who restrains. The A Mils say that the He is the Roman Emperor whose presence halted the rise of the papacy. Can this be correct as the Roman Emperor was under the control of satan anyway and its seems unlikely that satan would hinder himself.
    The Pre Mils say that this is the Holy Spirit who alone can bind satans activities. Who do you think is right and why.

    Every blessing

    Prionseas
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Here Bro. Prionseas is an outline of our
    future:

    Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection
    2. Tribulation time
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
    5. new heaven & new earth

    The timeline according to Matthew 24
    (Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
    Mark 13, Luke 21):

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    Matthew 24:4-15

    1. rapture/resurrection
    Matthew 24:31-44

    2. Tribulation time
    Matthew 24:21-28

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    Matthew 24:29-30)

    Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
    (4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    The timeline according to Revelation:

    0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 &lt;== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection - Rev 4:1 (type)
    2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
    4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
    5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

    The timeline according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    (implied, until the falling away)

    1. rapture/resurrection
    v.1 - gathering together unto him
    v.3 - falling away

    2. Tribulation time
    (time of the man of sin)

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    v.8

    Not mentioned:
    (4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    BTW, I've been a pretrib premill for 52
    years now and don't recall anybody believable
    who claimed that the "he" is the Holy Spirit.
    The "he" is the Church, the Bride of Christ, the
    body of Christ. Of course, the Holy Spirit dwells
    witin the the Church, the Bride of Christ, the
    body of Christ so perchance in a figure, the
    Holy Spirit will be taken away.

    But i believe that in the Tribulation Period, the
    Holy Spirit will indwell the newly saved.
    The devine purpose in the Tribulation period is to
    win a maximum number of Jewish Israeli to Jesus.
    The Holy Spirt will be strong convicting individual
    Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah and Savior.
    At the mid-trib crises, when the Antichrist commits
    the Abomination of Desolation (AOD) many Millions
    of Jews will see that their real Messiah is Jesus.
    The Holy Spirit will immediately begin to dwell
    within them. The Holy Spirit will be around all
    through the Tribulation period.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    I believe it is the Body of Christ... because the Holy Spirit is also active on the earth during the Tribulation (Rev. 19:10)... my 2 cents
     
  4. Walls

    Walls
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    I Believe it is God. There are certain things that must happen before Christ is revealed and God is waiting until these things have been fulfilled.
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    Remember the hermenuetic rule - interpreting in contextually.

    We have to understand 2 Thess. 2:7 - 'he', we have start with verse 3 continues thru verse 8 speak of 'man of sin' about Antichrist.

    Apostle Paul tells us, that Antichrist cannot be revealed in his time yet, Antichirst is now being holding back from being to be revealed, because the gospel is now spreading over the world till the apostasy increasing- 2 Thess. 2:3. Then, when the apostasy become worser, God will allow Antichrist to be loose out of the mystery, then to be revealed.

    2 Thess. 2:7 does not saying Holy Spirit shall be taken out of the way - rapture.

    2 Thess. 2:6-8 tell us, Antichrist is now being holding back by God, because it is not his(Antichrist) time yet. When the apostasy become worser(vs. 3) then, God will allow Antichrist to be loose out of the mystery, and then to be revealed - vs. 3 & 8.

    I hope you understand clear what apostle Paul saying on 2 Thess. 2:1-8

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  6. Askjo

    Askjo
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    Will the Holy Spirit go through the tribulation?
     
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    The restrainer is Michael, the archangel.

    The Holy Spirit remains on the earth, and still indwells people, but doesn't baptise them into the body of Christ, his church.

    The Holy Spirit has always been on the earth. He can't leave. He is God. However, he can alter his ministry in any way he desires. Apparently, his ministry doesn't include continuing to add to the church.
     
  8. Caretaker

    Caretaker
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    The Holy Spirit indwells all believers. It is the presence of God within all believers who letteh/restaineth, when He is taken out, at the rapture, of the way then that man of sin is revealed.

    A side note in John 14 Jesus refers to God's Holy Spirit, the Comforter as "He".

    John 14:
    16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  9. foundthepath

    foundthepath
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    If the renunciation of faith and the lawless one revealed must happen before the coming of Christ. If the Holy Spirit is in us. If God is in heaven. Is Jesus Christ not the only one left to restrain satan and God the only one that can take Christ out of the way. Are Jesus satan doing battle as we speak.
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    2 Thess 2:7 does not saying that the Holy Spirit shall be taken out of the way - rapture.

    That is pretrib's method of interpreting verse 7. I disagree with their intepreting.

    Again, remember hermenuetic rule - intepreting in contextually

    'he' of verse 7 goes start with verse 3 speaks of 'man of sin' is Antichrist. I do not see 'holy spirit' anywhere in the context from verse 3 to 8. Verse 3 to 8 obivously speak focus on Antichrist only.

    Apostle Paul tells us, that Antichrist is now holding back, because it is not his time yet(vs. 6). Paul said, the mystery of inquity is now working spread out of the world - 1 John 2:18, & 1 John 4:3. We cannot see the working of satan, but we know evil system is spreading everywhere in the world, even we already see many antichrists(1 John 2:18) out there today, we know that we are in the last days.

    2 Thess 2:6-8 tell us, that Antichrist( the one future final world dicator or false Messiah) are now being holding back from being to be revealed, because it is not his time yet(vs. 6). When the apostasy become worser (2 Thess. 2:3), God knows when the right time, then He will allow Antichrist to be loose out of the way, and then to be revealed - 2 Thess. 2:7-8.

    You asked me will the Holy Spirit be present during tribulation period?

    Yes.

    Mark 13:11 tells us, that the Holy Spirit will continue working in us while face persecutions, tribulations. The Holy Spirit never leave us, because he is our comforter.

    Eph. 4:30 tells us, that the Holy Spirit will remain in us as sealed TILL the day of redemption. That means, the Holy Spirit will remain in us, till Jesus comes again at the second advent, then we shall receive glory new body at the rapture - 1 Cor. 15:51-54.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  11. Askjo

    Askjo
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Daniel David

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    deafposttrib, I am a pretribber and don't believe what you just said we do. When will the nonpretribbers stop with the stereotyping of chaferian/larkin/scofieldian dispensationalism attacks? I don't care about any of those guys, I am still pretrib, and there are zero problem texts for me.
     
  13. DeafPosttrib

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    To be honest with you, I do not see any passage in the Bible saying that the Holy Spirit will leave earth at the rapture before tribulation begins.

    Matt. 28:19-20 tell us, that Christ promises us, that He be with us till the end of the world. The gospel will be continue carry into the world through this present age and also through tribulations, even through great tribulation till Christ comes again at the end of the world.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    DeafPosttrib: "To be honest with you, I do
    not see any passage in the Bible saying
    that the Holy Spirit will leave earth
    at the rapture before tribulation begins. "

    I dont' see anybody arguing the point.
    Congradulations on destroying a strawman
    argument created wholly by yourself. ;)
     
  15. dclark14

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    WoW- All these years I've been interpreting contextually based on what I read in verse one: "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and--our gathering together TO Him" Guess I'll have to check this out. If there is a dual context, then---maybe we'll be taken in the order of our belief!
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    NO, no, Brother dclark14 -- not THAT contextually [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. DeafPosttrib

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    I think I understand what dclark14 talking about.

    First, this thread or topic was open discuss on 2 Thess 2:7, asked, who is 'he'?

    So, I think dclark14 trying to tell you about verse 1 in contextually. He asked, if it have dual contextually. I think, he asked, if he see two phases(stages or split) of the second advent in that chapter with contextually.

    Pretrib teaches verse 1 speak of pretrib gathering together. Pretrib teaches verse 8 speak of postrib coming to destroy Satan's work.

    To be honest with you, I do not see two phases of the second advent in the contextually of that chapter. I can see only one coming of Christ in that chapter.

    That chapter tells us, our gathering together shall not come till we shall see apostasy comes first, and then we shall see Antichrist revealed - vs. 1-3.

    Apostle Paul tells us, that Antichrist cannot to be revealed till apostasy become worser - vs. 3-7. Antichrist's time is not yet - vs. 6. Antichrist is now holding back by God from being to be revealed. God knows when the right time, then He shall allow Antichrist to be loose out of the way, then to be revealed - vs. 6-7.

    Nothing in the context of verse 3 to 7 speak of 'holy spirit', because Paul does not mentioned Holy Spirit in that contextually.

    Pretrib believes 'he' of verse 7 is Holy Spirit. But Apostle Paul does not saying it. Pretrib just added it up in their own teaching.

    Also, I do not see gathering or rapture mentioned in verse 7. Apostel Paul does not saying about the gathering or rapture on verse 7.

    Paul discussed vs. 3-8 focus on Antichrist.

    That is so plain and simple, what Paul said.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20- Amen!
     

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