3 glories of Heaven some Christians can't enter the holies of holies

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Ok, this is my MIL's neighbor's website. http://www.waltdumont.org/

    He shared with her his doctrine, and she asked me to look at the website and critique it. She said he was so convincing that if it wasn't for a few red flags, she could see where it makes sense...

    So I pointed out some more red flags!

    To me, it looks like a twisted view of the doctrine we all came to love: ME... "Millenial Exclusion"...

    And while I know ME is against the rules here on BB, I would like for some of you that were more involved in fighting ME to look at this website... (There is a lot to go through) and see if it reminds you of some things in ME. It does to me.

    (I realize some of you newbies have no idea what ME was about... just hang on, you will find out)

    ME was a doctrine that taught that some Christians will be put into some type of purgatory during the millenial reign of Christ...
    Those that taught that doctrine was banned from BB last yr.


    This guy, teaches that there are 3 parts to Heaven... set up like the tabernacle...
    Most Christians will be in the outer courts...
    Those that receive the Holy Ghost goes to the inner court..
    And only those predestined and chosen by God will go to the Holies of Holies...

    He says Calvin has been misunderstood, and that God has revealed to him this truth...
    He is Charismatic...
    But has an unique way of looking at Calvinism vs. free will.

    He also claims that he is a chosen apostle, and that God appeared to him in as a cloud.

    He also says that most people will cleave to the gospel that they learned and will reject this new teaching... (Paul addresses this in Galations :thumbs: )

    I think he is sincere... and having talked to him on a few occasions, I think he is a son of God, saved, and on his way to heaven... but he is sincerely wrong in his interpretations...

    Check it out, and let me know what YOU think.
     
  2. webdog

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    Wow...where to start!

    I think his entire theory is built on a false presupposition he has no biblical proof for (3 stages of Heaven) and goes from there. It is worse than ME, IMO. He has added a whole new twist to ME, and it seems much of it is based on a trichotomous view of man (which I don't hold to)

    He needs to fire his architect and get a new one :laugh:

    Anyone can make anything look convincing using powerpoint and publisher... :D
     
  3. Amy.G

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    Oh what a beautiful couple you are, WD!

    Anytime I hear that someone thinks they are an apostle, I immediately turn them off.

    The only apostles that I am aware of had a personal, physical encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as witnessed by others.
     
  4. donnA

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    Amen Amy, this is the first clue. In the bible apostles were those wh were personally called by Jesus and had seen the risen Savior.

    Lots wrong with what Tim posted.
    The bible does not say there are 3 parts of heaven, nor even hints at it.
    According to the bible if you don't have the Holy Spirit you don't belong to Jesus, i.e. not a christian, not going to heaven.
    He has a warped understanding of the doctrine of grace (calvinism).
    If theres any 'new' teaching or gospel, it is to be rejected as false, it's all in the bible and that has existed a very long time.
    I'm sure if one examined his teachings they'd find a lot more false doctrines. None of it is christian.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    Three stages of heaven is a Mormon doctrine.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Tim, I took a look at the guy's website, but he has salvation and heaven layed out in such a complicated way that I'm afraid I will have to wait until my secret decoder ring comes in the mail.




    :D
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim
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    lol Amy!!!

    Here you go..
    [​IMG]

    Thanks to all who have looked...
    And thanks Rev.. I didn't see the connection to mormonism...

    But it is there...
    But with a slight twist..

    It's scary stuff isn't it?
    If you had a neighbor who was promoting this stuff what would you say to them...

    I notice he's a Binny Hinn fan too...
     
    #7 tinytim, Sep 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2008
  8. donnA

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    he would be wouldn't he
     
  9. donnA

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    I think if my neighbor were telling me about this, and they really were interested in scripture and God, prehaps they're christian even, I'd get a bible out and show them what scripture says, and ask them what scripture they think teaches this stuff. just ahve a gentle back and forth on it till you ave eventually pointed out scripture for all of it. Prehaps God will open their eyes. Which reminds me, I wouldn't talk to them at all about it without much prayer before hand.
     
  10. EdSutton

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    Well, I thought I saw a 'red flag' or two in the first picture, at the "Home Page", where appeared the words "The Gospel of the Kingdom" and "Moses' Tabernacle," which put me "on 'heightened' alert" as I proceeded.

    Then I almost made it through the first paragraph I read, under "Floor Plan of Heaven," although since I was now a bit suspicious, I was looking a bit more carefully than I might have, otherwise. Sure enough, I thought I saw the outline of a "trap door" in the floor, when I read the words "All that remains for us to do, is to acquire His free payment/gift for ourselves.". Sure sounded tempting- a bit too tempting, in fact, and the "keys" to unlock these, seemed awfully easy to get to, as well.

    Nevertheless, I decided to "walk carefully, not as unwise, but as wise," (Eph. 5:15, DBY) through that first door. The room was not clearly lit, it appeared, so with my 'Spidey-sense' now at a full buzz, I lit the oil in the "lamp for my feet" and saw "a light for my path." I now clearly saw a definite 'trip wire' across the room. (You might notice it, as well, under the words "Moses Tabernacle.")

    Since I now knew where it is, I breathed a hugh sigh of relief, which caused the smoke from the Lamp to dissipate across the room. This smoke has now caused a number of previously unobserved 'theological trip laser beams' to show up here, along with multiple 'booby traps' hidden in the shadows, and I soon realize that proceeding further is most foolhardy, as it can only lead to certain injury or death.

    I carefully step back and close the door, carefully step away from the door, and when I realize I cannot remove and forever 'lose the key,' in order to protect those who might come here after my departure, and desiring to remain innocent of the blood of all, do the best thing I know, and 'commend those who come after me, to God, and the word of His grace.' For I, as Paul, am certain there are "savage wolves", that if and when loosed, will not spare the flock. (cp. Ac. 20:19-35) :tear:

    Ed.

    P.S. I suggest there is more to this response than may first meet the eye.
     
    #10 EdSutton, Sep 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2008
  11. tinytim

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    But did you find the Ark?
    I love your response Ed!
     
  12. Aaron

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    This is nothing new. I've heard variations upon these themes countless times. It begins with thinking that works are meritorious, that it is we ourselves who labor and not the grace of God that is within is.

    And, BTW, his saying that Christ appeared to him is no less credible than the Baptist minister who stands behind the pulpit and says, "God said to me..."
     
    #12 Aaron, Sep 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2008
  13. EdSutton

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    Several years ago, I heard on a tape, and don't even know the source, this warning:

    "Beware the 'New Revelationism', whereby every man becomes his own little god!"

    Well said, and I fully agree! And I suggest this is applicable, here.

    Ed
     
  14. Gina B

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    Before even going into all of the doctrinal errors, I'd start with where he gets them and whether they're of God or not.

    He says he wrote several booklets about "obtaining the prize." Dumont goes on to state that the information in them should only be shared with those with sincere hearts for God, although years later that directive was changed. ( http://www.waltdumont.org/ )

    From Matthew chapter five:



    14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
    15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.



    There is nothing secret or hidden. One must study to show themselves approved, and we are encouraged to find safety in a multitude of counselors.


    Dumont claims the following:






    God has already supplied the words that need to be spoken to the sheep. They are contained in the Bible. Prayer is the key to understanding the Bible. Studying theology, commentaries, and history helps and can be companions to studying, but if you must go outside the Bible to find or complete a doctrine, it is extra-biblical and that makes it wrong. The scriptures are now complete.



    This man is using extra-biblical happenings, which aren't trustworthy, to establish his beliefs. For example, he quotes Smith Wigglesworth and the Bible side by side. You can never put as much reliance on a man as you do on the Word.



    1 Corinthians 14:29 says this: Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.



    Did that happen with Wigglesworth? Did that happen with Dumont?



    He also speaks of audibly hearing God speak to him. Are we not told that God first spoke to man, but afterwords, he spoke to his people through his son Jesus, and now through the Bible?



    I would encourage Dumont to look more deeply into what "treasures" are, and what we do with those rewards. They are not given to us and something that we keep to decorate ourselves. They are what we earn, and we are told by scripture that they are what we will have to lay at our Father's feet. It would be no small matter to have nothing in our hands to give. When we first come to the Father here on this earth, we come empty handed with nothing to offer. We build up our offerings by our sacrifices of praise and the works of our hands. It is not done for ourselves.

    When we come the second time, which will be literally for those who have spiritually done so already, may we have rich offerings we desire to give. To think of taking more from the Father after he gave us his Son strikes me as the ultimate arrogance and as coming from a hard, prideful, sinful heart, not a soft, repentant person who understands the depth of our Father's love.



    He needs to understand that Satan and his followers...the idea isn't a joke. He can appear as an angel of light, and it can FEEL right and look right. Supernatural things can occur. Satan and his angels do have different abilities than humans. Something that appears supernatural does not mean it is of God. Many people make that mistake.



    I'll stop there. I really see no need to go for what the scriptural mistakes are, as it will do no good since his very base is wrong. If he can get that part right, the basic concept that God is God and the Bible is true and both need no "extra assistance" from man, the rest should follow.



    He does seem very deeply entrenched though. My heart hurt for him as I read. He is so eager and so passionate, and so very wrong. It would be a wonderful thing to see him come to a true belief in God and accept that the truth needs no "correction."
     
  15. tinytim

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    Thanks Gina...

    He is a kind man. And I hurt for him as well.
     
  16. LeBuick

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    I would inconspicuously leave copies of real estate magazines at his house with cheap properties circled. If that didn't work, I'd tell him his house was hades and light it on fire... :thumbs:

    Seriously, seems like you have your work cut out for you. Will he come to your classes?
     
  17. tinytim

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    He lives beside my MIL 4 hours away from me and my wife.. and we only get to go home about 4-5 times a yr.. and I rarely see him when we are home...

    But my MIL and him and his wife are good friends.
    There is nothing to worry about with my MIL.. she is well grounded...

    But she needs to know how to deal with him when he brings this junk to her.
     
  18. LeBuick

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    Do you know any good pastors in that area? I think he's seeking, just misguided...

    Unfortunately, there is no single word or argument that will get him on the right path. He needs to get under good teaching.
     
  19. tinytim

    tinytim
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    YEAH POCADOTS AND ABCGRAD!!!

    Why didn't I think of that?

    Yoohoo... Pocadots.... Abc... you out there?
     

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