30,000+ protastant denominations

Here is some more for you from the article Thessalonian posted. As you can see, this 34,000 Protestant denominations is probably much, much smaller according to this gentleman. He sees them as separate from Anglicans, Orthodox, Catholics, and Independents just to name a few. The 34,000 includes all these different groups, if I am understanding this correctly. Boy, you guys sure did not do your homework. Talk about being a little less than honest. I expect someone to at least admit they were wrong for going around misusing this number and that you will cease until you can give a list of these 34,000 PROTESTANT, not CHRISTIAN, denominations that you love to espouse.

In Christ,
Neal

 

And instead of being lazy and dishonest, support your own claim. And I was not claiming "my library" (which it is not mine, it is the school's library) is the source. See, I am going to do something. I was going to go look at the book referenced that is put out by these people to see if they list these "denominations." Novel idea, isn't it? Why don't you come off you proud high horse for a little bit and stop being so arrogant?

Neal

 

Uhhhh... What claim have I made?

What would it prove if the 34,000 denominations are not listed in a particular book? That they do not exist?

The authors of the book say that they have an itemized database. Why not just ask them?

Sorry, no offense meant.

 

Also, taking these numbers, it only averages out to 115 church/worship centers per denomination. I would assume the RCC is included int this 34,000 number. The SBC too. Methodists. Etc, etc. Okay, just knowing the SBC, there are many, many more churches than 115. I would assume that too for the RCC and other large groups. So there have to be some very, very small groups that are classified as a denomination. Maybe even single, independent churches? Makes me wonder all the more what is classified as a denomintation. It definitely takes the wind from your sails when you try to paste this 34,000 on Protestants, especially when YOU are included in the number.

In Christ,
Neal

 

You have never said that there were 30,000+ Protestant denominations?

By the way, could you at least acknowledge that you have wrongly used this 34,000 denominations number to only apply to Protestants? That is the least I would expect from you.

In Christ,
Neal

 

Did I say that it would disprove it? Umm...no. However, before I would write (which I will not) I would check their book, simply because that is easier and to me the logical first step. However, I don't go around using this number. So why should I write and get this list? Why not you? This is what Catholics believe about Protestants, right? Wouldn't you want to have that list so you could prove us wrong and rub it in our faces?

See you later, I am headed to campus now!

In Christ,
Neal

 

I would say "no".

What makes you say that I have done so?

Why would I admit to this, if I have not done so?

When wrongly accused, the least that most would expect would be a retracation and an apology.

But it's not necessary. I forgive you.

 

Neal, you are in college so you should be able to relate to this question.

When doing a research paper, do you cite other author's work, or do you include the other authors complete body of research that he used in preparing his paper?

Having cited the source of the 34,000 denomination number, it is not my responsibility to get further detail from the persons who came up with it if you disagree with that number.

I can not explain the methodology of their work. Only they can.

 

In the U.S.A. 80-85% of Protestant church members can be found in seven denominational families: Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal, Disciples/Churches of Christ, Pentecostal/Charismatic. Thus, the "30,000" number is a gross exaggeration and a plain untruth.

 

It would be interesting to see what
the author of 30,000 denominations
construes as a denomination.

I think a denomination should have a mailing
address (e-mail or snail-mail).

 

Hi, Michael. It's been quite a while since I've seen you post on the BB. Welcome back.

Here's some links concening the WCE:

Global Evangelization Movement
World Evangelization Research Center
World Christian Encyclopedia.

50 facts and figures
Global Diagrams and Sample Tables
Center for the Study of Global Christianity

[ September 26, 2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]

 

Thanks, RL

 

That's funny. This coming from the guy who tossed around this 30,000+ number without having a clue as to whether it is true or not.

Neal </font>[/QUOTE]Seems to me that I was the one who posted the information on where the number comes from. Am I going to swear by it's validity. I don't see where I have. I used it somewhat flippantly in a quipping manner. Why does the number offend you so much. Perhaps you should get to the root of your fears Neal. I could suggest a good therapist if you like. Martin Luther himself complained about men "being blown about by every wind of doctrine" after he started his famed reformation. Seems like the shoe fits to me.

Blessings

 

Whose point is pointless?
First, We havge no such sign in our church.
Second, Did not Jesus go to the demon-possessd man in the Gadarenes who was oft-times naked?
Third, Is it also not our responsible to go to the same kind of individuals--to feed the poor, to clothe the naked, etc.
Fourth, the church is primarily for the edification of the believers, not unbelievers. Jesus told Peter: Feed my flock. The flock speaks of believers in Christ. In Acts 20:28 Paul uses the same phraseology.

Fifth, you are mixing apples and oranges. You are talking of a requirement of those whom you call believers, and in fact the future leaders of your church. Would you find them stark naked in your services?
Your example does no service to this discussion whatsover.
DHK

 

Fundmentalist Christians hold to all the doctrines
expressed by the early church as found in the
Holy Scriptures. We commune with all Christian
groups that hold to the inerrancy of both the
Old Testament cannon and the New Testament cannon.

All other groups we consider apostate.

 

Some more lists, if anyone is actually interested:

Global Adherents of the world ’s 19 major distinct religions
Enumerating Christian Traditions
Global Religious Changes
Geo-political Religious Blocks
World Christian Trends across 22 centuries
Global Top Ten Lists

The first five are "pdf" and require Adobe Acrobat Reader (or perhaps something else similar).

 

DHK, that loud whooosssssing sound you heard was my post going right over your head.

 

Because it is not true and you are bearing false witness. I believe that breaks one of the Ten Commandments. Should I not be bothered by that? Give me a break.

Just remember all this loose dealing with "facts" and accusations. I find it funny that no one wants to say that they have used this number before. You defended from the get-go on this thread by giving your reference. Ever since I have starting talking with the Catholics here they love to toss out 20,000, 25,000, 30,000, 34,000 and variants of the number of Protestant denominations. OUTRIGHT LIES. And now you back down because someone calls you on it. Yet, you jump all over Bob Ryan and others about getting their facts straight when you do no such thing. I believe there is a name for that.....it begins with a 'h.'

Anywho, I will post my findings from your source and then we will go from there. Can you at least admit you are wrong for saying it was 34,000 Protestant denominations, when it is clear from the article you posted that Catholics are included in that number? Come on, I have heard of passing the buck, but this is getting ridiculous. No one will fess up to tossing this extravagant numbers around?

Minimize it all you want and call me crazy, but if you are going to speak, at least speak truthfully.

Ron, I seriously apologize for assuming you assert this number. I assumed this because you sure seemed to defend it. I do want to ask you honestly: have you ever tossed around numbers such as 20,000 or more? I could almost promise I have seen you do that. However, they do not save the old threads here, so I need your word for it so I can have peace of mind. If you never have, I apologize for associating you at all with any of this.

In Christ,
Neal

 

Thank you, RLVaughn, i am interested.
"Denomination" was not defined.
THe 33,400 denominations are WORLD WIDE
and include at least 280 Roman Catholic
denominations (in 280 countries).

The 33,400 denominations are NOT all
protestant Christian.

 

Okay, let's take a look at this number 34,000 (actually, it is 33,820). This information is found from the World Christian Encyclopedia by David Barret. I will admit from the beginning that I did not have a ton of time to look through the books (it is two volumes) and they are HUGE. However, I found the information I needed to lay this issue to rest, hopefully for good.

Barret breaks up Christianity into six megablocs: Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican, Protestant, marginal Christian, and Independent. The sum of ALL the denominations of each group is where 33,820 comes from. It is NOT just Protestant, as we have been led to believe by some here. He then divides these six megablocs into two groups: 1) Denominationalism (henceforth signified by 'D')(consisting of Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican, Protestant, and marginal Christian) and 2) Postdenominationalism (henceforth signified by "PD" (consisting just of Independent groups).

Here are some stats for the two groups:
Denominations: D-11,830 PD-21,990
Congregations/churches: D-1,654,000 PD-1,791,000
Christians: D-1,502,000,000 PD-386,000,000

And here is the all important definition of "denomination" that he uses:

I am sure many would not agree with this definition of a denomination, but this is what the author clearly spells out as his criteria. Please note that he goes country by country, not worldwide. So the RCC in America is a different denomination from the one in Mexico, so on and so on.

Further, here are some more stats:

Amongst the RCC he says there are 22 major traditions with 242 denominations. Amongst Protestants he says that there are 27 major traditions with 8,973 denominations. However, please remember, he is going country by country. At most, being very generous, there could be 1,000 to 1,500 distinct Protestant denominations worldwide. However, I do not swear by this, and with a little research it could be obtained. But I don't have the time nor do I care to, so I will leave that to someone else. Any concerns on my part have been laid to rest. I will admit there are many Protestant denominations (remember, I feel 1,000 to 1,500 is being very liberal), but there is absolutely, positively nothing close to what has been claimed here by Catholics. Especially in the sense they insinuate when they use the term denomination. So I hope this is the last time I see the 10,000-34,000 numbers tossed around. And before you say, "Oh well, there are still a lot," please think of what you are saying. You are excusing your false witness like it is nothing. Do you really take it that lightly? Can we pass it off that easily? Is not Jesus THE Truth?

Here are a couple of other tidbits:

He counts "non-denomination" as a major tradition of Protestants with more than a hundred denominations. I just found that funny. Also, he counts such groups as marginal Christian groups and includes their denominations in the 33,820 number: Divine Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Theosophists, Unitarians, and Mormons. I don't think many of us would agree with this assessment.

Interestingly, this Independent major bloc appears to be very, very small groups for the most part that do not identify with any of the major traditions. I would like to look at these more, but many appear to be local or national groups.

It appears to be an interesting set, but quite questionable with the definitions. Please, draw your own conclusions. Look at the set. But before you use it against someone, remember it as a whole. Your group may be in there and add a few denominations itself.

In Christ,
Neal

P.S. Ron, I just wanted to clarify that I am in graduate school, not college. Lest you get wrong ideas in your head about me.