5 Freedoms you'll lose under Obamacare

Discussion in 'Politics' started by rbell, Jul 27, 2009.

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  1. rbell

    rbell
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    An absolutely chilling article. (note...it's not a "right-wing" publication, either)

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/new...bama.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009072410

    This reinforces my belief that this is the most dangerous, anti-freedom, ridiculous bill proposed in my generation.

    1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
    2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
    3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
    4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
    5. Freedom to choose your doctors

    excerpts:

     
  2. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow
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    Fear mongering at it's best!

    Since no plan has passed yet, you don't know what the facts will be.

    We do need universal single payer health care, though I doubt we end up with single payer.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    First, there's no such thing as a "single payer health care" system. Everyone pays. Second, why do we need this?
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    This is part of the current plans. Being that it is so grievous it is not fear mongering but forewarning.
     
  5. targus

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    This is what is in the bill as currently written.

    Is it your assertion that we should not talk about the bill unitl after it is passed?

    What would be the point in talking about it then - it would be too late.
     
  6. Robert Snow

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    I understand.

    I think the current bill will be changed before it has any chance of being passed. I am hopefully that the Congress will come together and present a good bill that will pass.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Wow! I appreciate your intellectual honesty in this. Good to see!:thumbs:
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    With all the medical lobbyists in D.C., I wouldn't be too hopeful. I think "Health Care" has taken the place of "Bush lied us into war" in the dem playbook of playing their base. Hate to be so blunt about it, but there's too many people making too much money off medical insurance.
     
  9. shinninglight

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    RBell, REV

    Your President, yes your president is a big fan of the Canadian Medical system. I'm sure he is also getting family input(on his wifes side) who live in Hamilton, Ontario in Canada.

    The 5 things you stated...

    1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
    2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
    3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
    4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
    5. Freedom to choose your doctors

    In Canada............
    1. You have the public plan which everyone has and the right to have a private plan either thru work or purchasing an individual policy. You don't lose any freedoms.
    2. Some of the healthies people I know have died of blod clots or cancer etc. We all have ticking time bombs. There's no perfect human body. You don't lose any freedoms.
    3. With public health care there is no deductible. No freedom lost.
    4. Canadian public health allows you to keep your existing private plan. No freedom lost.
    5. Canadian public health allows you to choose any doctor you want. No freedom lost.

    Your country will follow our system in large part. No freedom lost, Everyone covered. Next on the Agenda.......get rid of all your guns and gun manufacturers. Save a Vietnam War in your country each and every year.
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    What Canada has is not relevant other than it is a fact that it is a failure and Canadians must cross the border to get expensive and life saving treatments. And Obama fails to represent me daily. Your personal little proclamations hold no bearing or no truth.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    As tough as your laws are, and as spread out as the population is, stats show in 1987-1996, 32% of your homicides involved firearms. That says a lot, seein's how you have less people in Canada than there are in California. In an area about 12 times the size.

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa030500c.htm

    Don't you feel safe, living next to the U.S.A. ? Think you'd still be a sovereign nation without us here under you ?
     
  12. rbell

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    First...try and stay on topic. Guns ain't it.

    Second...the discussion is of the bill at hand. What is presented in the OP is actual parts of the bill. Maybe there are fans of the Canadian system in DC...but the bill didn't say, "take the Canadian system and make an exact replica."

    Third..."I" didn't state this. This comes from an article carried by CNN...hardly a "right-wing publication."
     
  13. donnA

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    facts with proof irritate you don't they.
     
  14. Robert Snow

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    I don't doubt your stats, and I'm not trying to dispute them. Although this information doesn't break down homicides by type, I found this information about international homicide rates by country interesting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    I noticed that the United States rates are higher year by year when compared to Canada.

    Something else I noticed is that all of Russia, all of Brazil, pretty much all of Central America, Mexico, and the southern portion of the U.S. all had high homicide rates. This surprises me.
     
  15. shinninglight

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    The biggest problem in Canadian-American relations today is the illegal importation of hand guns from the States into Canada. Just recently a Chicago gun runner was busted for importing a large number of guns of which a number were used in murders in Toronto. Chicago police along with Canadian help finally put him away. Border control agents can only do so much. The US needs to shut down the gun factories. Rifles for hunting and for use by farmers I understand. But handguns in this day and age, I will never understand. We Canadians watch in horror at the mass killings in the states and we have had a few of our own(notably the 8 Bandito bikers killed and the Le Ecole murders of 10+young women). But always the guns come from the US.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Who cares if you understand it. It is our constitutional right and to shut down gun factories would take a constitutional amendment. That goes beyond an act of congress and moves closer to an act of God. Maybe you should be so concerned with the criminal element (Canadian criminals) in your country and deal with them rather than play victim and blame someone else.
     
  17. shinninglight

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    REv Mitchell there you go spewing off with broad statements that are twisted. I hope your sermons arn't twisted.

    You state,

    "What Canada has is not relevant other than it is a fact that it is a failure and Canadians must cross the border to get expensive and life saving treatments"

    How can something be a failure that has been working for the last 40+ years?

    Those seeking outside help usually involve meds or procedures that have not been approved by CDN medical authorities. They're new with very little followup results and usually involve people in very desperate situations. I had a friend(48 years old) who had stomach cancer and went to Mexico for Cancer treatment. Mexico of all places. While some of the leading Cancer hospitals in the world are in Canada. This was after Cdn doctors tried everything but with Cancer, you never know. George Harrison travelled all over the world to solve his throat cancer and spared no expense. In the end it was late for him and my friend. People will try anything when they are desperate. There's no perfect system, only the best possible system. Having 30-40 million people not covered is a terrible option.
     
  18. shinninglight

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    Rev states " It is our constitutional right "

    Its a right that should've been shot down. A long long time ago.
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    This while most likely true is not the whole story. And my statement stands as I have posted time and again evidence to support it. And it is irrelevant and inappropriate to bring my call into the discussion. Grow up.
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    Sounds like you have a border enforcement problem. Why blame us that you can't enforce your own laws ? It's like us complaining about Mexican marijuana, or Afghan heroin.
     
    #20 Bro. Curtis, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2009
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