?????

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by kraftyhorselover, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. kraftyhorselover

    kraftyhorselover
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    What do you think of Obadiah Holmes?
     
  2. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    218
    For info, click this link
     
  3. RevZach

    RevZach
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obadiah HOlmes

    He's a huge hero of mine.
    "You have struck me as with roses."
     
  4. kraftyhorselover

    kraftyhorselover
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    We watched a movie about him and I think he is one of the greatest Baptist heros of all times
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,628
    Likes Received:
    310
    His case is one reason I don't have as high an opinion of the Puritans as some of my Brethren.
     
  6. dcorbett

    dcorbett
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,411
    Likes Received:
    1
    Agreed - The Puritans were very much legalists....and grace never entered into the picture.
     
  7. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that either I have misunderstood you, or you have a different group of Puritans in mind. All the Puritans I know of had God's grace very much "in the picture".

    John Owen wrote, in his book The Dominion of Sin and Grace:
    First, the Law giveth no strength against sin unto them that are under it, but grace doth. Sin will neither be cast nor kept out of its throne, but by a spiritual power and strength in the soul to oppose, conquer, and dethrone it. Where it is not conquered it will reign; and conquered it will not be without a mighty prevailing power: this the law will not, cannot give.
    Richard Baxter, in a hymn, wrote:
    Lord, it belongs not to my care,
    Whether I die or live;
    To love and serve Thee is my share,
    And this Thy grace must give”
    John Bunyan wrote a book with the title: Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners.

    John Flavel wrote a book called The Method of Grace in the Gospel Redemption.

    And so I could go on.
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,628
    Likes Received:
    310
    The sub set of Puritans I was refering to were the ones who governed Massachusetts Bay Colony, Mather, Winthrop and company.

    Obadiah Holmes was a Baptist preacher who lived in the Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantation. He was the second pastor of First Baptist of Providence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obadiah_Holmes

    The pertinent paragraph in the article is:

    As noted in other narratives of the case, the three were praying with the sick brother in that brother's home. Like Paul in the temple, they were doing so quietly and without drawing attention to themselves. The constables broke into the house to arrest the men. Governor Endicott wanted to hang them simply because they denied infant baptism and so considered them murderers.

    Brother Holmes had to live on his hands and knees until his back was sufficiently healed.

    So, my gripe isn't so much a theological one. It's with the modern uncritical "worship" of these brethren. In New England, their zeal to set up a New Jerusalem left them zero tolerance for those who dissented from their doctrine.

     
  9. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, Squire, for explaining. I should have paid more attention to the context of dcorbett's post, then I would have realised that he/she couldn't possibly have been referring to men like Owen, Bunyan and Flavel. :)
     
  10. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    218
    I would say that dcorbett is a woman, as I doubt that BB would allow a man to be a moderator in the Womens :1_grouphug: private :type: forum :laugh:

    That is interesting that Obadiah Holmes was the second pastor of First Baptist of Providence.
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,628
    Likes Received:
    310
    Brother David, remember back to the conditions of the Commonwealth when England was under the control of the Roundheads. And remember Bunyan wasn't a Puritan, if one defines Puritans as the English sister of the Scottish Presbyterians and Continental Reformed Churches.

    The grace being spoken of as lacking wasn't in the soteriological sense of the word. It was used in the "political" sense. Politically, the Puritans on either side of the pond showed no "grace{ towards heir opponents. Why do you think the Thirty Years War finally ended in this century in Ireland.
     
  12. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you! Again, all my fault for not looking at the context. If I had, I would have (I think) have realised that dcorbett was talking "politically" and not soteriologically.

    Re Bunyan, yes, it must depend on one's definition of "Puritan". I know it's hardly conclusive :)laugh:), but I just googled "Bunyan was a puritan", and got over eight thousand hits, then "Bunyan was not a puritan", which got just four.

    Thanks again.
     

Share This Page

Loading...