7/11 songs

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by usingmybrain, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. usingmybrain

    usingmybrain
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    I hear people use this term a lot when talking about modern day worship songs. The idea is that contemporary praise and worship music is "7 words repeated 11 times". A short phrase repeated over and over. I've heard people say this as way of showing how contemporary worship is "trite and repetitive".

    BUT....it's what God likes.

    God could have ANYTHING He wants said or sung to Him in heaven and what does he choose?

    Rev.4:8 Each of these living beings had six wings, and their wings were covered with eyes, inside and out. Day after day and night after night they keep on saying, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty – the one who always was, who is, and who is still to come." (NLT)

    A short phrase repeated over and over. Don't get me wrong, I like the hymns. But, I would rather sing what God wants to hear. Not what I want to sing.

    Tad
     
  2. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    While I agree that repetition doesn't necessarily make a song wrong (just maybe uninteresting musically after a while), to say that one is better than the other (i.e. traditional is better than more modern forms or vice versa) is not correct, in my opinion. As long as a song is lyrically sound, I'll use it. This Sunday we're starting our service with "How Majestic is Your Name" (Hymn #29), "How Excellent is Thy Name" and "Glorious is Thy Name" (Hymn #204). We're also using "Open the Eyes of My Heart." It takes all kinds for my church, and we worship using them all. One at the exclusion of the other doesn't work in my opinion.
     
  3. SBCPreacher

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    I don't think there is only one right kind of music style for the church.

    Back when I led worship full time, we always used blended worship (hymns and choruses) and do where I pastor now. I often said that the only person I couold not make happy is the one that wanted his way all the time - either all hymns or all chrouses.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

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    Ha!! I've heard them called 7-11 songs, too.

    And people who don't like them for their repetitive nature have obviously never sang page 206 in the hymnbook! :tongue3: :flower:

    "Blessed Be The Name"

    "O for a thousand tongues to sing,
    Blessed be the name of the Lord!
    The glories of my God and King,
    Blessed be the name of the Lord!

    Blessed be the name,
    Blessed be the name,
    Blessed be the name of the Lord!
    Blessed be the name,
    Blessed be the name,
    Blessed be the name of the Lord!"

    If you sing all 4 verses from the hymnal, you repeat "blessed be the name" 32 times!!!!

    And of the 225 words in the song, that phrase repeated 32 times makes up 172 words of the total hymn.

    If 7-11 songs are unworthy, then "Blessed be the Name" DEFINITELY needs to go!

    :smilewinkgrin:

    Just kidding....
     
  5. Pete

    Pete
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    It doesn't need to go, just needs a better choice of tune and/or arrangement :tongue3: That's in our hymnal too, I don't think I've ever heard that version of it though :) (THANKFULLY! :smilewinkgrin:)

    If all of the 19 verses mentioned HERE are genuine Chuck Wesley I'ld love to do it somewhere one day....Probably not the "Lyngham" tune though, might take a while :smilewinkgrin:


    Don'tchya hate that......IT'S BEEN DONE!
     
    #5 Pete, Aug 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2006
  6. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    The only "religious" 7/11 song I know is....

    "Oh thank heaven for 7/11!"
     
  7. Pete

    Pete
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    Cool, so now we can chop out Psalm 119....and about 140 something others? :tongue3: :smilewinkgrin: With all the different lengths of songs in the Bible no-one can really argue for or against 7 or 7000 words can they?

    As for the 11 part, well if someone gets 7 great words and manages to work them into the beautiful melody "Slane" (Be Thou My Vision) 4 or 5 times then ok, I could probably handle going through that twice....But after that I'ld be wandering off to look for a pizza or something ;) This isn't just an "old + long = good, new + short = bad" deal. I think 2 or 3 times through would even be the maximum for Isaac Watts' "When I Survey"...........QUICK SOMEONE!! Where can I get a congregation at 3:06am to experiment on?? hahahahahaha


    (Length of songs and number of times sung aside, I think another look at the songs in the Bible strongly suggests that songs so vague they could have been written about anyone or anything (MEOW) shouldn't be as popular as they are today. The songs in the Bible couldn't be sung to any cat, no matter how great the cat in question may think he or she is ;))
     
  8. usingmybrain

    usingmybrain
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    Hey, I didn't deside what is sung in heaven to God. God did.
     
  9. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?
     
  10. usingmybrain

    usingmybrain
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    Ok, my point is this. A lot of people talk about contemporary worship songs being "short phrases repeated over and over", the "7/11" thing. They do this in a very condescending way to prove the superiority of the "hymns". But, what does God want in the way of worship? He could have anything He wants said and sung to Him in heaven. What does He choose?

    Short phrases repeated over and over.

    Rev.4:8 Each of these living beings had six wings, and their wings were covered with eyes, inside and out. Day after day and night after night they keep on saying, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty – the one who always was, who is, and who is still to come." (NLT)



    Tad
     
  11. Pete

    Pete
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    So does that mean we can dump these other long-winded Psalms and songs or not? :confused: Psalm 119 REALLY has to go...So do a lot of those other rambling ones. I suggest dumping every Psalm over 6 verses long. That will leave us a good selection of 19 or so...We should take out a fair percentage of the hymn books too, Chuck Wesley and co never knew when to throw in the "Amen".

    Nah, hang on, that would still leave us with a playlist featuring some songs that are too long...tell you what, how about we just throw out all the rest of this stuff and just spend Sunday's singing "We love You yeah, yeah yeah, we love You yeah, yeah yeah, and with a love like that You know You should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!" :)


    Oh, and while I'm here I'ld also like to know what's the guy's name playing first base? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  12. usingmybrain

    usingmybrain
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    Again....take it up with God. I'm sure He likes the Psalms, they are His Word. But, He likes what He likes. Hey.....Look at Revelation.

    "how about we just throw out all the rest of this stuff and just spend Sunday's singing "We love You yeah, yeah yeah, we love You yeah, yeah yeah, and with a love like that You know You should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!"

    Yep, that's the condescending attitude I was talking about.

    Tad
     
    #12 usingmybrain, Aug 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2006
  13. Pete

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    I did take it up with God. As I mentioned in a post above "
    With all the different lengths of songs in the Bible no-one can really argue for or against 7 or 7000 words can they?" You've been trying to make point for short songs with songs in Revelation and seem to be forgetting the rest of the songs through the Bible :) There are 176 verses in Psalm 119, 2 verses in Psalm 117, and a medium sized 29 verses in Psalm 118. So while the songs in Revelation are short ones, a look through the whole Bible suggests that "what God likes" is a pretty varied collection. Size only matters in car engines :)

    As for "condescending attitude", those wishy-washy sugar-coated happy-happy-clappy-clappy Christian elevator music "We love You yeah, yeah yeah" songs deserve everything that can be thrown at them and then some until the scampering little cockroaches are extinct. I don't know about others, but for me anyway this has nothing to do with the length of a song. As I always mention when this topic comes up, take Geoff Bullock & David Reidy's Blessing, Honour from 1990:
    Blessing, honour, glory to the Lamb
    Holy, righteous, worthy is the Lamb

    Death could not hold Him down
    For He is risen
    Seated upon the throne
    He is the Lamb of God
    Only a short one but gets my vote as one of the best of last 20 years or so. If all the newer songs were up to that standard of lyrics there wouldn't be as many problems.

    Again as I hinted to in a previous post, ALL the songs in the Bible are unmistakably about God, who He is, what He has done, and the writer's response to that. If we are seriously trying to work out "what God likes" then I suggest that Biblically that seems to be priority in a song. Yet again from previous post: Songs so vague they could have been written about anyone or anything (MEOW) shouldn't be as popular as they are today. The songs in the Bible couldn't be sung to any cat, no matter how great the cat in question may think he or she is ;)
     
    #13 Pete, Aug 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2006
  14. cjnreb

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    My opinion on these "7-11" songs is that there are few problems. One is the music that these words are set to. Within the repetition of the words, there is an elevation in the key changes in order to generate an emotional response. We do not come to worship in order to satisfy our emotions. Also, the emphasis in the words of the song are one sided. I believe that when we come to worship God that we worship God and not just one person of the trinity. Most of these "7-11" are focused on one aspect, but also some of our hymns are the same way. Every church that I have been a part with the exception of one have used only traditional hymns. Where I pastor and where I grew up, 7-11 songs would not be suitable for the people.
     
  15. Aaron

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    If you had actually studied this passage, you would soon see that yours is a conclusion completely unhampered by exegesis. But then, the CCM movement didn't begin with theologians. In fact, the spirit of the CCM movement is one that resists doctrine and theology in favor of a kind of "spiritual" feeling. So why would we be surprised their hermeneutics leave a lot to be desired?

    I'm pretty sure that's how God feels about it, anyway.
     
  16. usingmybrain

    usingmybrain
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    Hey.....Just read what the Bible says.....or is that too simplistic for you?

    UMB
     
  17. Pete

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    We did read it. More of it than just 3 verses :smilewinkgrin: Need help finding the rest in there? :tongue3: ;) :sleeping_2:
     
  18. davidgunter

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    I don't think ALL of CCM resists sound doctrine or theology.
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    One of our songs in Old Regular Baptist
    Don't know Author.

    *THERE IS NO OTHER FOUNTAIN*

    I will draw my strength from Jesus.
    As I lay upon my bed.
    I will take my comfort from Him.
    I will find in Him my rest.

    Chorus:
    For there is no other fountain.
    Where I can be more satisfied.
    Than in the arms of Christ my Savior.
    No blessings I will be denied.

    All pain will leave my aching body.
    As His sweet healing virtue flows.
    Just ask God in faith believing.
    By His will it shall be so.

    Chorus:
    For there is no other fountain.
    Where I can be more satisfied.
    Than in the arms of Christ my Savior.
    No blessings I will be denied.

    Oh, that I may not ever leave Him.
    For there is no other place to go.
    He has the words of life eternal.
    From Him the healing waters flow.

    Chorus:
    For there is no other fountain.
    Where I can be more satisfied.
    Than in the arms of Christ my Savior.
    No blessings I will be denied.
     
  20. guitarpreacher

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    This is funny. I pastor a contemporary church, and have lots of friends who pastor contemory churches and have been in lots of contemporary churchs. I also have been on staff at traditional churches, have lots of friends who pastor traditional churches and have been in lots of traditional churches. The only churches I have seen that are singing "7/11" songs are traditional churches that pretend to be somewhat contemporary.
     

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