70 Weeks = 490 Years = One Unit of Time (rev.)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    70 Weeks = 490 Years = One Unit of Time

    There. I made that the title of this piece because that is my main point. All the rest is proof and commentary.

    It goes against both common sense and Scriptural usage to imagine that there are one or two gaps within this period of 70 weeks. I hate to admit that, earlier on, I have taught both variants. It was because I valued the authority of men over the Word of God.

    It is against common sense.
    It is ironic that we have to argue for common sense on this very point of imagined gaps in the 70 weeks, because those who hold for gaps, for the most part, also hold very strongly to Cooper’s dictum “If the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense”.

    Dispensationalists run that flag up everywhere in Scripture, almost … except here. Where in our lives would we have something like this? If we join the military for four years are we going to fear that there will be a gap somewhere in there? If a criminal is sentenced to twenty years is he released in nineteen and kept in suspense as to when his twentieth starts? No. This would be nonsense.
    It would be Scriptural nonsense as well.

    It is against Scriptural usage.
    Has there ever been a gap before in stated periods of time in the Old Testament? No.

    An interesting fact emerges in a study on the periods of forty units in the Bible:

    There are thirteen “forty year” passages: Deut 8:2; Judges 3:11; 5:31; 8:28; 13:1; 1 Sam. 4:18; 2 Sam 5:4; 1 Kings 11:42; 2 Chron. 24:1; Ezek. 29:11; Acts 7:23, 30; 13:21.
    There are also thirteen “forty day” passages: Gen. 7:4, 12; 50:3; Ex. 24:18; 34:28; Num. 13:25; Deut. 9:18, 25; 1 Sam. 17:16; 1 Kings 19:8; Ezek. 4:6; Matt. 4:2; Acts 1:3.

    In none of these twenty-six passages can there be found a gap.
    Then why would their be one even imagined in the seventy week passage before us? The answer is an historical one. It became the ancient expedient of those first-century Jews, having disowned their Messiah, to find some interpretation for those Messianic passages like Daniel 9:24 – 27. Still manifesting respect for their sacred writings, they took one of three routes.

    • Some, like (Rabbi Jonathan) took the “only-God-knows” tack, even writing that it is a sin for the faithful are not to even look into these things. He wrote, “Let their bones rot who compute the time of the end”. These are the same ones – and for the same reason – who mark off Isaiah 53 as being unreadable. Many modern versions of the Torah do not have this chapter of Isaiah in their Haftaroth section, though they have almost every other chapter.

    • There are others, just like their liberal counterparts in Christendom, who either reduce the prophecy into vague or undefined metaphor or deny it altogether.

      • The first group frees themselves from both the burden of proof and the evidence of history. The passage can mean anything then. And if it can mean anything, then it actually means nothing; all connection is lost.
      • The second group, those who deny altogether, merely close their eyes to the problem; or point to the past as fulfillment. Belonging in this category is a Rabbi Hillel (not the famous earlier one) who blandly asserted, “A Messiah shall not be given unto Israel: for they enjoyed Him in the days of Hezekiah.”, slanting Isaiah 9:6-7 for this purpose.

    • But some are too orthodox for this, at the least. They cherish a residue of respect for the sacred writings of the past. They have enough faith to believe what God did in the past, but not enough to believe that God came in the flesh in their time. Or, having met Christ or His message, they couldn’t accept a God in such a humiliating form. But they still believe in Messiah-to-come. But what to do? The timetable has run out (according to Daniel 9) and Messiah hasn’t arrived. Aha! There must have been a gap. And, strangely enough, this same expedient – though for different reasons – has been taken up by some 19th century Christians.
    The Seventy week prophetical period is based on the earlier seventy years of Jewish Captivity, Dan. 9:2, 24. Was there a gap in the captivity? If not, then why should there be one in the period based on it? We Christians merely assumed there is a gap because those whom we trusted kept telling us that there was one! It’s that simple. When we make the determined transition from “my preacher says” to “the Bible says” then we can really start to grow in understanding, paying much closer attention to what God’s Spirit has put in His Book.

    Why is this Important?
    Because Christ is all-important. More important than the Jews. More important than Antichrist. Without repeating everything I wrote in my earlier article (Six Promises of Christ to His People) I will just say that it takes away from the Christ-emphasis. The Seventy weeks passage is a prophecy for the people of God (first believing Jews, now believing Jews and Gentiles).

    It is not a prediction of some future events that will undo what Christ has accomplished once for all.

    There will be no more sacrifices, no more priesthood, no more temple, no more holy places (John 4:24) – that has any importance in the eyes of God. That was all finished up in Christ. The true temple is the church of God, a spiritual temple.

    The true sacrifice, based on the Lamb’s once-for-all sacrifice, is Christ’s ministering to us as High Priest on our behalf, Heb. 8:1- 2; 10:21.
     
    #1 asterisktom, Mar 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2012
  2. revmwc

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    God didn't reveal to the O.T. prophets the mystery as He did to Paul, not even Daniel.

    Here is your problem 490 - 483 = 7 years. Messiah was to come and be cut off in the 69th week that was fulfilled. Now for the 70th week to occur at that time it would have had to have been a time of tribulation for 7 years, culminating with the return of Christ to set up His Kingdom, this is where you run into problems.
    A couple questions:
    1. Did Christ come Physically and present Himself as Messiah in the 69th week?
    2. Was He cut off in the 69th week?
    3. That leaves the 7th and final week correct?
    4. A week of great tribulation that lat for 7 years correct?
    5. Yet we haven't seen this type of a period of time have we?

    A time in which all people are required to worship the beast and his image that is sitting in the temple where it ought not to be
    6. Do we have historical fact to that?
    7. If Christ came physically as Daniel said He would and if He was cut off as Daniel said then what makes you believe His return as Kin on Dvid throne as prophisied is not the same a Physical return?

    The 70th week has not been fulfilled and Daniels prophecy must be fulfilled at some point just as Isaiah who say He (Messiah) will reign on this earth as do other Prophets. To interpret as a metaphor would men to deny the diety of Christ as incarnate Son of God. To say He didn't really come inthe flesh because He won't return in the flesh as scripture prophisies.

    God knew His plan to place a place the time we are living in as wedge between O.T. prophecy and not reveal it to the O.T. prophets and yet He revealed it to the Apostles especially Paul.
     
  3. thomas15

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    This (7 year) tribulation will be like nothing seen on earth before or ever again. This would include the flood in the days of Noah, it will be worse than that. The bowl, seal and trumpet judgements give a graphic on this tribulation and the NT places this as a future event to the first century AD.

    The preterist think that the sacking of Jerusalem by the Roman General Titus meets all of the specifications of the tribulation and second coming of our Savior. If this were true, we would now be living in the promised kingdom of Christ. We would not have to look for the return of Christ, the "Blessed Hope" as it is past history. I think this is dangerous.

    It is hard for me to accept that the church is the Kingdom of Christ as promised in the Bible. True, the Holy Spirit is at work in believers but is Christ ruling the Church with an iron Scepter? Those who do think that way do not believe that their church will be judged like the 7 churches in Revelation. As I see it, the church is begging for judgement these days.
     
  4. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    I had a cat who, whenever I gave her water, just would not drink it, however thirsty she was, if she saw a speck in the bowl.

    I felt the same way when I saw your post here. I cannot even get to the rest of what you wrote because of a serious boulder in your bowl.

    Two verses that I hope you will consider:

    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    The first passage scans ahead to Amos's future, assuredly relevant to the times of the New Testament (and ours). God did not have a "secret plan" that involved the Old Testament faithful, without - according to their capacity - giving them encouragement on that plan. There is no parenthetical "hidden Church Age" that was in the supposed valley of the Old Testament prophets' vision.

    On the contrary, the church is alluded to several times in the OT, though unacknowledged by many today.

    The second passage, 2 Tim, looks backward in time (Paul was speaking, after all, of the Old Testament when he says "Scripture"), assuring Timothy that it will give him (Timothy) all that he needs.

    True, New Testament events cast light on prophecies that previously seemed dark. In this both angels and prophets were frustrated by a shortened perspective on their long-distance announcements.

    But New Testament history was already written of in the Old Testament, though unrecognized at the time, the events themselves providing the clinching confirmation.

    So this is the speck that I can't get past.
     
    #4 asterisktom, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    Where does it say that Christ is ruling the Church with an iron scepter?
     
  6. thomas15

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    Your kidding, right?
     
  7. asterisktom

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    Perhaps you didn't notice the italics.

    Here are four passages with that phrase:

    8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
    The nations for Your inheritance,
    And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
    9 You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron;
    You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ Psalm 2:8-9

    26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
    27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
    They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ Rev. 2:27

    4 And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
    5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Rev 12:4b-5a

    14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
    15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


    Where is there here anywhere a reference to Christ ruling the Church with a rod of iron. It is always "the nations" or "the rulers".

    There is a reason for this common misunderstanding today. It is part of the current mistaken paradigm that we have all been taught to see in Scripture. It overlooks the overwhelmingly spiritual nature of the present Kingdom.
     
    #7 asterisktom, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  8. beameup

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    So what happened at the end of the sequential 70 weeks (of years) in around 40 A.D.?
     
  9. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    Exactly what the Angel Gabriel said would happen, back in Dan. 9.
     
  10. beameup

    beameup
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    40 A.D.
    What happened historically?

    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people - (genetic) Israelites
    and upon thy holy city, - Jerusalem
    to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,
    and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
    and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
    and to anoint the most Holy.
    - Dan 9:24
     

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