A Challenge to Calvinism

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Matthew 28:19-20

    How do Calvinists interpret this passage, especially focusing on the part that says "go and make disciples..."?

    Is that seen as going and making Christians? What does Jesus mean here? Isn't this something that only God does? Doesn't a Calvinist believe that our main job is to preach the Gospel and then God will save whoever he will?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello Joseph_Botwinick.

    18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Seems pretty obvious to me that Jesus says to His people that they are to go in the knowledge that Jesus has all authority. Because Jesus has all authority, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go Therefore go and I am with you always with all authority. It is an empowering thought that when we preach we have Him behind us.

    Does that answer your question Joe?

    johnp.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Not really. You see, I focused on one part of the passage in my question, and you focused on another part of the passage in your answer. Specifically, what does Jesus mean when he says to "make disciples" from the point of view of a Calvinist? Does that mean to go and make Christians? Isn't that God's job? Aren't we simply to preach the word and allow God to draw whomever he will?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello Joseph_Botwinick.

    Yes and yes it is God's job to save people. I see nothing wrong with the idea that God uses our voices to spread the word He wants to spread. Go and make disciples is that evangelism. If we don't speak He will not save.
    We share in the gathering of the sheep but we never imagine that we save anyone, but the man that saved me, who knocked on my door, is how I know him.
    John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
    He would not say it is impossible for man if He was meaning that man can save. We have Christ in us we are one. When we speak the word of God we are one with Him! :cool:

    Any better?

    johnp.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Yes and yes it is God's job to save people. I see nothing wrong with the idea that God uses our voices to spread the word He wants to spread. Go and make disciples is that evangelism. If we don't speak He will not save.
    We share in the gathering of the sheep but we never imagine that we save anyone, but the man that saved me, who knocked on my door, is how I know him.
    John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
    He would not say it is impossible for man if He was meaning that man can save. We have Christ in us we are one. When we speak the word of God we are one with Him! :cool:

    Any better?

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, actually, it is better. Except for the part where you said:

    Are you saying that if Christians would not speak, then some of the elect would not be saved? Wouldn't that allow man to thwart the sovereign choice of God? Cannot God save regardless of whether or not we were to speak?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello Joseph Botwinick.

    No I left it like that because it was quick and convenient. I thought you might come back on it. I'll try to be tidier next time.
    If we don't speak He will not save.
    If we don't speak it is because He has shut our mouth. The people we speak to we speak to because God wants us to speak together. The words we use come from God. Your words come to me from God and this goes for all things said and done. They are because God says so and causes them to be so. He is awesome.

    God is Sovereign. :cool:

    johnp.
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Makes sense. Thanks.

    I will post more challenges for you to respond as I come upon them in the Bible.

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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