A Foolish Question?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Scripture states emphatically... That God is not a God of the dead but of the living... Since my wife is only dead to me but alive in Christ... Do those that pass this veil of tears know what their loved ones are going through... Or would it bring them to much sorrow?... And shouldn't we just let scripture stand... That the dead know nothing?... Of the world of their loved ones and those left behind... Or is this a foolish question :confused: ... Curious as usual... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  2. Helen

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    Hi Glen,

    Your question brought two Scriptures to mind. The first is the beginning of Hebrews 12 -- that we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. This is immediately after the partial list of OT faithful. Thus, it does seem they are aware in some way or another of us.

    The other verse is from Revelation 21:4, talking about the new creation where there will be 'no more death or ourning or crying or pain, for teh old order of things has passed away.'

    I do know that there is joy in heaven when one sinner repents. We read that. We know that the angels are involved in warfare in the 'heavenly places.' This cannot be a source of joy! So it seems that when we put all these things together that the full range of emotions is possible even at the side of the Lord now. The difference would be the absolute knowledge those who are with Him have of His goodness and faithfulfness and love and mercy -- and so there would be no despair, but there could certainly be sadness, I would think.

    Perhaps others have other passages which could shed some light on this, I don't know.

    Please know, though, that it is right and good for you to mourn and hurt. Not mourn as the world mourns, but the depth of your pain will most probably reflect the depth of your love for your lovely wife. And although you will always, until you are in heaven, too, have a "Charlotte-shaped hole" in your heart, it WILL stop bleeding after awhile. The pain will eventually be replaced by a great tenderness and a kind of love that lifts you a little above what you have known here, even while you are alive in the body.

    Don't be afraid to walk through these days with tears. But keep the faith. If Charlotte is aware of you now, she will see your faith through your tears, and that will bring her joy, I am sure. Your tears are for a time, but your faith and love and deeper joy are forever.

    God bless you, brother.
     
  3. Artimaeus

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    I don't think it is a foolsih question at all. I am sure everyone (nearly) has wondered the same thing. I do think there are foolish answers though. I don't see the scriptures teaching us that those who have passed on are watching us. How much are they aware of what is going on here is something I would be willing to listen to scripture references for.
    Curious, too,
    Joe
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I am curious too. I often wonder if my mother is watching over me or is even aware.

    We should have a forum;

    "Things I always wanted to know but was too afraid, embarrassed or shy to ask" :D

    Blessings,
    Sue
     
  5. Artimaeus

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    Helen, Hi, Hebrews 12:1 has nothing to do with the faithful watching us. It has to do with us watching them. They are witnesses to their experiences and can and do testify to what happened to them. We have that testimony of scrip[ture. They did not have this much testimony and thus we are more responsible and ought to be more convinced than them.

    Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. (KJV)

    Who is experiencing this joy? The Trinity, Angels, all souls in heaven rejoicing over each lost person getting saved, souls rejoicing over known loved ones, or souls watching their loved ones and rejoicing when they repent, or the crowd cheering at the report of souls won? Makes me curious, though.

    Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (KJV)

    Again, I don't think this is talking about life in heaven. If there are tears, sorrow, crying, and pain in heaven then there is also death. I don't think there is death in heaven, do you? I am not being adamant, it is just how it seems to me.
    Joe
     
  6. Helen

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    Hi Joe,

    I want to be really careful of this thread, OK? For Glen's sake... [​IMG]

    What I read in Hebrews 12:1-2a is as follows:
    Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes n Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith...

    A witness is someone who sees what is happening. We are surrounded by a cloud of those who see what is happening. Because this starts with therefore, we must look at the passage previous -- the end of 11:
    These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only togther with us would they be made perfect.

    At this point we only see two groups of people -- them and us. I agree that we are certainly being watched by those around us on this earth. But I wonder if that is what Hebrews 12:1 is referring so, starting, as it does, with 'therefore' and thus seeming to refer back to Hebrews 11.

    And if there is rejoicing in heaven over one who is saved, then there does seem to be some kind of watching going on, doesn't there?

    In the long run, whether there is or not, it does not hurt any of us to be aware that at the least the angels can see us and that we are being watched by those on earth with us as well.

    So, Glen, I don't know about Charlotte right now except for this: she is with the Lord and she is totally out of pain. She left that behind in an instant. She does not hope now because she does not need to; she knows. She knows the love and the joy and the peace. It will take her and all of us all of eternity to really even begin to understand everything, but right now she knows everything will be all right and let your heart rejoice in that out of love for her. She knows she is more full of joy than she could even imagine here on earth, and she knows that you will be too, someday in the not so far distant future.

    If she is aware of you right now, she is cheering you on. If she is not aware of you right now, she is so full of joy in the presence of the Lord that you can rest in peace in that part of your heart that everything you ever wanted for her that was good and true is what she now has.
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    Thanks, Helen

    Matt 25:23...enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    These words are the most comforting words to me. Can you just imagine the sheer ecstasy of hearing those words? If they can see us, they are fans, rooting for us, cheering for our accomplishments, and wishing we were there. But, understanding that God is not through with us yet and has important work for us to accomplish.
     
  8. russell55

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    Oh, Tyndale, you are wondering about exactly the same things I do.....

    I don't know if those in heaven know what we are going through. ( I really don't think that passage in Hebrews is talking about them watching us.) I know that it broke my husband's heart to leave his not-yet-grown son behind. How could he be joyful in heaven knowing the hurt that my young son feels every day?

    My thoughts at the moment are that they are in the presence of the Saviour and they probably are a whole lot more interested in Him than they are in us right now. I think they probably do understand that we will be okay in the long run, and that we will come to be with them someday. But they are busy seeing wonderful things right now, things we can't even begin to imagine.

    Anyway, those are my musings on the subject. I just don't think we are told very much about what is going on with them except that they are with the Lord. The rest is just guess work.

    But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and they dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Keep the eternal joy set before you in your sights and keep your eyes on Jesus, who is the originator and finisher of your faith, and you will be able to endure, day by day, without being weary or losing heart. It's the "things not seen" that give us hope--the things we look forward to that are too wonderful for us to imagine, and yet we can hold the substance of them in our hands through faith.
     
  9. Thankful

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    Brother Glen, this is definitely not a foolish question. It seems this is the question that most of us ask when a loved one dies.

    I have read a lot about this and discussed with others and we just don't know the answer.

    I just cannot believe that they see the problems and troubles that we face.

    I see them as rejoicing and praising our Savior..singing in the heavenly choir if they want, wondering at all the marvels of Heaven and standing in awe in the presence of God.
     
  10. Caretaker

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    God Bless you my Dear Brothers and Sisters;

    To be surrounded, enveloped in the eternal, majestic, all encompassing Grace and Glory of our God. To be absent from this earthly cocoon, and to be in the very presence of our Lord, our Savior, our Master. To be perfectly filled with Joy unspeakable and filled with everlasting glory. Our beloved ones await our birth-pains of crossing over with anticipated joy, for to shed this flawed and imperfection, and to enter into perfect joy, love, peace, is so indescribable.

    Rev. 21:
    3: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    4: And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    5: And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6: And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


    Dear Ones in Christ, it is merely conjecture on my part, but a part of my blessed assurance, that the cares, the heartaches, the trials of this world are so very miniscule compared to the all-encompassing happiness which awaits for all of eternity. It must add to our loved-one's joy to know that those who sojourn a wee-bit longer in this alien land, also have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. The only sadness would be the reality of those who might reject our glorious Lord and never experience the homecoming.

    God bless you my Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  11. LadyEagle

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    When my dad went to be with the Lord and when my sister went in February, I just felt like their presence was there at their funeral services - just because (it was a time of sorrow, yes) it was a time of testimony and rejoicing and singing and praising God for what He has done for us thru His Son, Jesus Christ.

    Both services were packed with believers and the presence of the Holy Spirit was real.

    I just felt like God allowed them to see their services because they were so wonderful & a blessing to many people.

    There is so much we don't know on this side. We see through a glass darkly.

    I miss them...still. But I know they are with the Master. What a comfort that brings to my heart.
     
  12. Wygal

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    I certainly am no expert, but I do know that loved ones that have passed on, are absent here, but present with the Lord. I don't think the things that we worry about, and the things that make us sad would effect them in the same way, even if they do know about them. We only know in part, while we are alive, and surely, we think differently than we will when we are with the Lord.
     
  13. Istherenotacause

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    Hi, Since the Bible tells us that every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father above, I would have to conclude there is no report of the sorrow to our dearly departed as to lessen their heavenly joy, but I do believ they are given the good report of the Lord working things out for His honour and glory. I can almost hear the Lord telling one of those we know,"Look at what my grace is doing in the life of those you love."

    Just from a personal experience, and I don't lean on just those, but the Word of God alone. My grandparents had left the walks of this life, My daddy was in control of their estate. He'd notified my sister and me to either get all their belongings out that we wanted, or he was going to sell all the contents to a junk dealer, he didn't want any of their stuff, he'd already gotten all he wanted to keep.

    You have to understand, there were a few antiques and personal affects. Anyway, without all the details, that ol' serpent the devil was doing all he could to disrupt a peaceful settlement to the situation. I went and knelt in prayer at the graveside of my grandparents, asking the Lord , if they could see what was going on, to assure them that I was only there as a matter of duty, I told my grandmother I would take care of the bass she'd had mounted as I promised many years prior to her death.

    Y'know, the Lord worked miracles . It was immediate He had things in control. Things that would be just a normal everyday thing, suddenly couldn't be accomplished, like renting a truck to load up the furniture and stuff.

    The first night my family and I spent in their home was truly an erie experience, (old creaky house, poorly lit). It wasn't until the next day I had gone to the gravesight. The next night we had perfect peace, though all "hell" seemed to be breaking loose in every direction.

    I guess you just had to be there to get the whole grip on how the Lord worked it all out.

    Do they know what we are going through? I believe the Lord let's them have a glimpse over the banisters of heaven to view the workings of grace He has for us, just to glorify Him the More!

    Just a thought, good question. I believe the Lord uses things like this to just grant another "good and perfect" gift to those in His presence.
    (Sorry for such a long post) [​IMG] :eek: [​IMG]

    Brother Ricky
     
  14. Sherrie

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    Now I was taught that when a person dies of this life and goes to live in Christ...they are just that...focused on Christ. They see God. They do not see anything here. They only see God.

    And I am personally happy thinking they don't. How Ebbie Geebie to think a jillion million people are looking down on my every move.

    I do not have scripture for any of this off hand, but when I think about this it makes sense.


    Sherrie
     
  15. RTB

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    No Brother, this is not a foolish question, anyone who has suffered the loss of a loved one has asked themselves and others this same question. I have mourned the loss of someone close, yet rejoiced in the Lord at the same time because I will see them again when my Father calls me home. But to answer your question, I hope that can't see the pain this life causes daily. I hope that they are rejoicing being in the presence of Jesus and they don't have time or inclination to look down on this world below. Time may go slow for me here but to them it will be but a moment before I am with them. For what is a few years compared to Eternity? For a time that we are apart, I will remember the joy, happines and love that we shared, and know that the greatest gift that any person could give was given to me and I still have the memory of their undying love.

    In Christ

    Ronnie
     
  16. christfollower55

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    if they could look down on us they would be sorrowful and sad. the bible says there is no sorrow or sadness in heaven...


    GOD BLESS AMERICA
     
  17. Karen

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  18. Karen

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    But I forgot to mention, I think the real issue is that Heaven is not on the same time as we are.
    I don't know how Heaven interacts with us in time, but it is also possible that we will all get to Heaven at the same "time".
    In some sense, it may not be the case that Martin Luther has been looking down on the earth for 4 or 5 hundred years.

    Karen
     

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