A man is ethical only when ...........

Discussion in 'All Other Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    "A man is ethical only when life, as such to him, is sacred to him, that of plants and animals as well as that of his fellowman, and when he devotes himself helpfully to all life that is in need of help."
    Albert Schweitzer
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

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    At least the ones already born.
     
  3. Alcott

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    You mean it's wrong to use Rounc-up by the fence?
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

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    "The Jesus of Nazareth who came forward publicly as the Messiah, who preached the ethic of the kingdom of God, who founded the kingdom of heaven upon earth and died to give his work its final consecration never existed. He is a figure designed by rationalism, endowed with life by liberalism, and clothed by modern theology in a historical garb. This image has not been destroyed from outside; it has fallen to pieces …"

    Albert Schweitzer
     
  5. Alcott

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    And how evil is it to boil water, which kills bacteria?
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    I am not sure what your are trying to prove with the quote. But is is completely out of context and chopped off way too soon.

    Read the entire chapter, Chapter XX of "The Quest for the Historical Jesus by Schweitzer. There you will find the quote in its entirety and in context.

    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/schweitzer/chapter20.html
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    It stands quite well on it's own, I think. Nothing he adds changes the spirit of that quote.

    Second, I challenged you on the unborn, which the political party you seem to support is at odds with your quote.
     
    #7 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2014
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  8. Crabtownboy

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    A quote with only half showing does not represent the quote with any intellectual honesty.

    I'll not answer your other completely off the topic sentence. Nice try to derail the thread. Stay honest Bro
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    It is on-topic. I put his entire quote up. It is on-topic because of this….
    Can you show me a quote that will convince me he is saved ?

    Second, is a child in the womb alive, and should we strive to protect them ? What should the "ethical" person do ?
     
    #9 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2014
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  10. Crabtownboy

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    Do you even know what the book you quoted from is about?


    No because your mind is closed.

    Again, off topic and simply baiting. Shame on you.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    In search for the historical Jesus.

    I didn't think you would be able to. I certainly couldn't find one. And I notice you're getting personal, again.

    On-topic, as the question and the O/P deal with ethics, and how we treat the living.
     
    #11 Bro. Curtis, Feb 14, 2014
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  12. Crabtownboy

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    You will not agree with me. You are resolute in always disagreeing with me.

    A statement is easy. There is nothing costly in a statement. I would say his life, his devotion to others, his following the teaching of Christ in his giving of his life for others speaks much louder than any statement he, you or I could make.

    As the old saw goes, talk is cheap, doing is costly.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

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    Getting personal again.

    Can you show me a quote that will convince me he was saved ? I perused the link you gave, and it convinced me he wasn't. I put up quotes that back my stance up. Why won't you ?

    Are you basing his salvation on his works ?

    Is there salvation in the teachings of Christ, or the death and resurrection of Christ ?
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    Only stating the obvious.

    You would never agree with me. So why try.

    His book was not a treatises on salvation but an investigation on the historical Jesus. It was not a statement of faith. I do not know if he ever wrote such a statement. But his life did.

    Nope, and mouthing the right words proves nothing about the person's real beliefs.

    As it says in Timothy, faith without works is dead. No, salvation does not come from works. But his works, which were extremely Christ-like show his faith.

    Actually in the examples of Christ he was much more interested in how we lived and acted as versus what we believe. Remember the rich young ruler, the woman at the well, etc. He did not question what they believed. His concern was what they did. Christ also realized that actions show a person's faith.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Well you complain about personal attacks, yet seem to be willing to engage in them yourself. I have not said anything about you, I am merely asking questions.

    Complete cop-out. Challenge unanswered. And you should end that last sentence with a question mark.

    So you are basing your argument that he was a Christian based solely on his works.



    Hmmm. My heavenly father, says anyone who calls on his son's name shall be saved. His death and resurrection are the basis of salvation.

    And as it says in Corinthians, faith in God is a gift, not based on works. That prevents people from boasting about an extra-biblical method of salvation. Works really show nothing. It looks like the guy in the O/P completely denies Christ's deity. I showed you a quote backing it up. Why don't you put something up that tells us he was saved, the way Christ told us it had to be ?



    Jesus told the rich young ruler that nobody is good. He tells the ruler nobody is good enough to inherit the kingdom of God. He also called the woman out on her sin, and told her only he could make it right….

    John 4;23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


    There is no truth to a works-based salvation. There is no truth to someone being saved because they do good works.
     
    #15 Bro. Curtis, Feb 14, 2014
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  16. Crabtownboy

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    Like I said, he life, the way he lived it speak louder than any words your or I could mouth.





    How do you balance this with Timothy and faith without works is dead?



    I agree that faith is not based on works, but your works will show me your faith.

    But he did not ask him what he believed about himself, Jesus.

    Jesus did not tell people you have to believe in him before he would heal them

    Like I said, Jesus stressed how we treat each other. Remember the Good Samaritan? People of faith passed by on the other side. The Samaritan, who Jews believed was heretics, was the hero ... not because of faith, but because he helped the helpless man.

    John 4;23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.




    There is no truth to a works-based salvation. There is no truth to someone being saved because they do good works.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. But show me your works and I will show you your faith. If what you call your faith brings about no works in helping those in need it is a useless faith, one that is rejected in the last judgement scene in Matthew.

    To reject that faith brings about works is selling cheap grace.
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    That is not biblical. Only God knows the heart. All I need is a statement of faith from him.


    I don't worry about it. The letters to Timothy do not contradict anything Christ said, or anything else the Holy Spirit led Paul to write.



    Actually, it won't. You cannot know my heart.


    He didn't have to. The Rich Young Ruler stated who he believed Christ to be in the opening statement to him. The Rich Young Ruler does not think himself to be a sinner.

    He said "thy faith has made thee whole". I'm betting you can't find a person he healed that doesn't acknowledge him as the Son of God.

    No, he didn't. He stressed that we cannot be saved without him. That is the central part of Christianity. And it should be "WERE heretics, not "was".


    Then to say he was a Christian based solely on his works, and ignoring his denial of the deity of Christ diminishes Christ's sacrifice. And I never said faith won't bring about good works, but I am saying to base his salvation on his works is unbiblical. You have not even tried to show me he was saved, except to repeat that he was a good works zealot.
     
    #17 Bro. Curtis, Feb 14, 2014
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  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    He was confused. That is the very best that could be said of him. Nonetheless, as Bro. Curtis said, only God knows the heart. There is no definitive way to know if he was indeed saved.
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Jesus stated his kingdom was not of this Earth. He said he was going to prepare a place for us. He talked of sitting at his father's side. He said to be absent from the body is to be present with his father. Nobody who read his words and believed them could possibly think he was trying to set up any kind of kingdom on Earth.
     
    #19 Bro. Curtis, Feb 14, 2014
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